Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

Our military has been reduced and recent events tell us what a mistake that has been

I see Trump as a threat to world peace

Whitewavemark2

Those in the armed forces have chosen to make it a career.

At least we don’t have conscription, where people have no choice.

Aren’t we lucky that so many of our young people decide on a career in the armed forces 👏👏👏

When the numbers begin to drop, then the U.K. will undoubtedly have to look at conscription and/or a compulsory period of National Service.

Every country needs an army/navy/air force, it’s a dangerous world and becoming increasingly more so.

Putin absolutely cannot be trusted. Give him an inch and he'll take an ell. All he respects is force. He'll take the whole of Ukraine and incorporate it into Russia and eye up the Baltic states also. (By the way, when Trump talks about annexing Greenland and Canada, etc., does he remember that the Russians once owned Alaska???)

Please could you clarify FGT2. If a war breaks up in Europe, over Ukraine or futher encroachment by Putin- you will support Trump and Putin, against Europe:

Just want to know where you truly stand here.

The UK will never be an inconsequential island, I agree. But it is currently isolated, in many ways, from Europe. And certainly does not rule the waves anymore.

Mind you, Churchill was in power for 6 years. Martial law. This is what happens in war time.

Aren't many Ukrainians pro-Russia? Perhaps Trump IS right and they would welcome an election? Zelensky’s official term ended last year (I think?).

The US and Russia carving up Ukraine between them. If this doesn’t convince the Europeans they have to boost defence spending to 5% I don’t know what will. Welfare and woke obsessed European countries and Institutions like the EU really do look like the Emperor with no clothes.

I don't know where you live David49, but if your country had been invaded by a much stronger force would you happily hand over part of the country rather than defend yourself?

For example, if it was Britain, would you say give Russia Wales or Cornwall and then happily go about your business rehousing all those people who owned the land for generations? Would you feel safe knowing you'd rolled over and given an aggressor what they wanted and that now they were in your back yard?

Appeasement hasn't boded well for peace in the past. Why would it now?

There is no doubt Zelensky will go, as a wartime leader he has been steadfast but he is not going to lead Ukraine after the war stops.
Elections are some way off get the peace deal agreed first, it seems the US and Russia has agreed a road map to peace, its going to involve a lot more interests than just Ukraine, a lot more negotiating to do yet.

It is a war that shouldn’t have happened

“Just a half-baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without the loss of much land, very little land, without the loss of any lives, and without the loss of cities that are just laying on their sides.”

MayBee70

If only we were part of something bigger and stronger instead of being a tiny inconsequential island.

Just imagine what this tiny inconsequential island could do if we weren’t so tiny and inconsequential.
Because right now we are only number one in Europe and 3rd in the world in the technology sector.
Why do you think this is? Because we are bloody awesome at this stuff.
Why do you think American uses so much of our military technology. Because ours is far superior.
I could go on but I’m sure you get my meaning.

From The Telegraph this morning:
(Cut & pasted as it’s behind a paywall, for those who might be interested to read):

“Donald Trump is demanding Volodymyr Zelensky hold elections that could oust him from office as the price of peace.

His comments came after Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, met in Saudi Arabia for the first time on Tuesday to discuss terms to bring an end to the war in Ukraine.

After more than four hours of talks, it emerged that both sides had agreed elections should be held in Ukraine before a final peace settlement is reached.

The proposal raises concerns that Russia will use the ballot to oust Ukraine’s wartime leader from office and install a pro-Putin candidate who would agree to peace terms favourable to Moscow.

Later on Tuesday, Mr Trump said the demand for a Ukrainian presidential election “came from me”.

Speaking from Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach he said: “We have a situation where we haven’t had elections in Ukraine, where we have martial law, essentially martial law in Ukraine, where the leader in Ukraine, I mean, I hate to say it, but he’s down at 4 per cent approval rating, and where a country has been blown to smithereens...

“If Ukraine wants a seat at the table, wouldn’t the people have to say it has been a long time since they had an election?

“That’s not a Russian thing, that’s something coming from me and coming from many other countries also.”

It represents a particular setback for Sir Keir Starmer, who on Sunday called for Britain and other Nato members to send troops to Ukraine to act as peacekeepers. He also said after a meeting with other Nato leaders in Paris on Monday that he would tell Mr Trump when he visits Washington that the US needed to offer security guarantees.

Mr Trump said that allowing Europe to have troops in Ukraine “would be fine”.

He added: “I wouldn’t object to it at all.”

Britain is prepared to send Typhoon fighter jets to police the skies above Ukraine as part of any peace deal, The Times reported.

On Wednesday, France will host a second meeting to discuss Ukraine and European security.

Mr Lavrov said diplomats from the US team also proposed a moratorium on attacks on the energy infrastructure of Russia and Ukraine.

A similar moratorium was discussed last year during negotiations to restore the Black Sea grain deal, but Kyiv refused to engage in dialogue, he said.

Mr Zelensky was not invited to attend the talks and cancelled a pre-planned visit to Saudi Arabia on Wednesday because he had not received clarity on whether the United States or any Russian delegates would still be there for meaningful meetings.

I don’t know who will stay there and who will go and to be honest I don’t care,” he said.

He reacted furiously to the Saudi Arabia gathering, saying that any talks aimed at ending the war should be “fair” and involve European countries, including Turkey – which offered to host negotiations.

“Ukraine, Europe in a broad sense – and this includes the European Union, Turkey, and the UK – should be involved in conversations and the development of the necessary security guarantees with America regarding the fate of our part of the world,” Mr Zelensky said at a press conference with Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s president.

Negotiations “should not take place behind our backs”, he added.

Mr Trump defended his decision not to invite Ukraine to the Saudi Arabia talks, saying “they had three years” to end the war.

“I hear that they’re upset about not having a seat. Well, they’ve had a seat for three years and a long time before that, this could have been settled very easily,” he said.

“Just a half-baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without the loss of much land, very little land, without the loss of any lives, and without the loss of cities that are just laying on their sides.”

Tuesday’s talks represented a consequential reset in relations between Russia and the US, with both countries agreeing to re-establish missions in their respective countries and to begin geopolitical and economic negotiations.

The first phase of the peace deal proposed during Tuesday’s meeting would involve a ceasefire, followed by presidential elections in Ukraine, which were postponed during the war under martial law.

The final stage would involve Kyiv and Moscow signing an agreement to end the conflict after an election, The Telegraph understands.

*
Yes, a long read but quite informative I found. Always interest to hear from “both sides”.

Sarnia

I could hardly believe my ears when Trump stood there blaming the Ukrainian Government for starting (!) this war when instead they should have done a deal with Putin and handed over a large part of their country to Russia.
Trump sees himself as saviour of the planet. There is nothing that cannot be sorted out now that he is POTUS. A very dangerous man.

The Orange Revolution, the wish to join NATO and the EU upset the balance of the relationship, Russia was content with Ukraine as a friendly neighbour as a member of NATO that would all change.
The EU and NATO actively encouraged them to join THAT was a big mistake, free democracy is not a one size fits all situation

I could hardly believe my ears when Trump stood there blaming the Ukrainian Government for starting (!) this war when instead they should have done a deal with Putin and handed over a large part of their country to Russia.
Trump sees himself as saviour of the planet. There is nothing that cannot be sorted out now that he is POTUS. A very dangerous man.

Zelenski s head and shoulders over Trump in courage and integrity. I despair at the Trumpand Musk Union, two massive deranged egos and anything possible.

MayBee70

If only we were part of something bigger and stronger instead of being a tiny inconsequential island.

We left the EU trading block not the continent, we are part of Europe, always will be.

The U.K. is definitely not a tiny inconsequential island , never has been, never will be.

Sacrificing Ukraine is a climbdown and disaster for Zelensky, but seen in the context of US campaigns nothing unusual, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan we’re all expensive failures, Trump is not going to make that mistake again.

Casdon

I think you’re misrepresenting the contributions David49. It is true that the USA spends more than its NATO allies, but that is partly because as a global superpower it also has interests outside Europe?

Some yes although the UK also contributes to global activity, we contributed to defending Israel and Afghanistan our new aircraft carrier Queen Elizabeth was part of a task force in the Far East. The defence forces are pretty integrated our nuclear fleet are maintained at Holy Loch but go to the US to be armed with Poseidon missiles, many aircraft and missiles are US sourced.
It’s high time that Europe manned up and paid for our our defence, the Baltic states and Finland are vulnerable. Europe is under threat more now than at any time since the Cold War ended, paying is going to be a bitter pill to swallow.

woodenspoon

Starmer needs to reflect on the meeting he has had. We don’t want to be going it alone with troops. He’s given Ukraine 3 billion pounds so far this year with a promise of more every year. It’s outrageous.

There seem is to be a misunderstanding about what Starmer has said.

As far as I understand, he expressed a willingness early on to commit peace-keeping troops only if it was part of joint efforts in Europe - and also only if the US was going to act as a back stop. I have not heard any suggestions he would "go it alone".

In addition, Russian has said today no NATO troops under any circumstances so its a moot point unless there is a change.

As regards meeting POTUS I'm not hopeful anything will come of it but I don't see the harm in trying.

If only we were part of something bigger and stronger instead of being a tiny inconsequential island.

Starmer needs to just be quiet. He's a minnow and has no power whatsoever.

KS is meeting POTUS Trump next week, so we will find out how high KS has to jump…

Starmer needs to reflect on the meeting he has had. We don’t want to be going it alone with troops. He’s given Ukraine 3 billion pounds so far this year with a promise of more every year. It’s outrageous.

Starmer needs to keep quiet now or backtrack.

Going it alone will make us a target to, in so so many ways.

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

“European leaders are scrambling to respond to what looks like the end of reliable US protection of the continent. It is unclear what the “main European countries” (which includes the UK) might be able to agree at a hastily convened meeting in Paris on Monday February 17. But individual countries, including the UK and Germany, have come forward to put concrete offers on the table for Ukraine’s security, which could include putting their troops on the ground.”

Article in The Conversation.

Well, it’s off the table today.

It looks like there isn't any concord in Europe now.. UK seems the only country actually willing to put feet on the ground.. I sincerely hope Starmer doesn't make a huge financial commitment..