J D Vance Munich address today.

Galaxy

That men cant be women. But surely you know this. Numerous court cases, one going on at the moment, etc, etc.

I'm beginning to wonder if people are ill informed by choice or because the media of their choice literally does not report facts.
The last time I checked the BBC hadn't reported on the WPATH files. If they have by now it's old news.
Is that responsible for a network with such a prestigious history?

Galaxy

There is a difference between speech and burning clinics down.

Quite a big difference
In fact two different subjects altogether.

”Thank you for my flowers Lizzie they were appreciated”

You’re welcome Wyllow.

Oreo
”Lizziedrip why keep sending members flowers for comments? On SM flowers are used as sympathy emojis.Use a smiley emoji instead”

On the GN emojis, there are two flowers; one denoting flowers; one denoting thanks.

Please don’t tell me what emojis to use / not use.

When I want your advice, I’ll ask for it.

Oreo

Lizziedrip why keep sending members flowers for comments? On SM flowers are used as sympathy emojis.Use a smiley emoji instead.

It was probably because this is what I wrote upthread Oreo

*My sister, aged 19, our father recently suddenly dead, just starting uni, our mother in hospital, fell in love with. dreadful man, and became pregnant. (all true, honestly).

She had to have an abortion in her circs. she didn't tell me - she went alone*.

Thinking she should have had to run any gauntlet at all appalls me

Thank you for my flowers Lizzie they were appreciated.

Wyllow3

There are plenty of spaces in a democracy to challenge any of our laws, start campaigns, but not at the cost of a relatively small number of spaces that vulnerable women need to use, be they a clinic that includes abortion services, or outside womens refuges.

The US funded ADF, by the way, who are spearing the campaign against abortion, also oppose gay marriage.

They are deliberately trying to turn the debate into one of free speech as opposed to abortion rights, deliberately putting people into buffer zones who are "just praying" but to the vulnerable feel intimidatory and spreading misinformation on being able to pray at home.

But their endgame is to end rights to abortion and gay marriage.

I would hope not, but wouldn’t each State have the say so on anything like these matters?

Wyllow3

A hard won right in 1967, and as an activist in the Womens Liberation Movement I was involved in marches in the 1975 The National Abortion Campaign to defend the 1967 Abortion Act and fight against proposed amendments. (so I guess I feel strongly)

I really do take the reservations and feelings people have around it, never an easy discussion, but as discussed in a previous GN thread some states are only allowing it if the mothers life is at risk - Vance is part of that movement and will take any opportunity to further his ideas.

JD Vance’s anti-choice record includes wanting abortion to be “illegal nationally,” attacking exceptions for rape and incest, comparing abortion to slavery, and more.

democrats.org/news/reality-check-jd-vance-says-he-wants-to-make-abortion-illegal-nationally-and-has-attacked-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/

Well done Wyllow.
xx

Lizziedrip why keep sending members flowers for comments? On SM flowers are used as sympathy emojis.Use a smiley emoji instead.

Thank you Wyllow

A hard won right in 1967, and as an activist in the Womens Liberation Movement I was involved in marches in the 1975 The National Abortion Campaign to defend the 1967 Abortion Act and fight against proposed amendments. (so I guess I feel strongly)

I really do take the reservations and feelings people have around it, never an easy discussion, but as discussed in a previous GN thread some states are only allowing it if the mothers life is at risk - Vance is part of that movement and will take any opportunity to further his ideas.

JD Vance’s anti-choice record includes wanting abortion to be “illegal nationally,” attacking exceptions for rape and incest, comparing abortion to slavery, and more.

democrats.org/news/reality-check-jd-vance-says-he-wants-to-make-abortion-illegal-nationally-and-has-attacked-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/

Nope I am able to make my own mind up about free speech, been doing it for years as have many others.

"But their end game is to end rights to abortion and gay marriage"

Spot on Wyllow3 That's what they want.

There are plenty of spaces in a democracy to challenge any of our laws, start campaigns, but not at the cost of a relatively small number of spaces that vulnerable women need to use, be they a clinic that includes abortion services, or outside womens refuges.

The US funded ADF, by the way, who are spearing the campaign against abortion, also oppose gay marriage.

They are deliberately trying to turn the debate into one of free speech as opposed to abortion rights, deliberately putting people into buffer zones who are "just praying" but to the vulnerable feel intimidatory and spreading misinformation on being able to pray at home.

But their endgame is to end rights to abortion and gay marriage.

I agree AGAA4.

Anti abortionists can wave their banners and speak out against abortion but not to the detriment of vulnerable people. They can speak freely anywhere but they choose to intimidate women having an abortion.
If anyone thinks this is right because we uphold free speech how do you feel about men choosing free speech to stand outside women's refuges and speak out and terrifying those inside.

In a civilised society we have to protect the vulnerable from free speech that erodes their rights.

To be fair there are some interesting people in the labour party who try, some of the 'blue labour' lot are interesting, Paul Embrey, etc. But other than that I would be more likely to 'trust' the individual campaigners for free speech rather than a political party on this subject.

So, Galaxy, as you appear not to trust the ‘progressives’ in relation to freedom of expression, which UK political faction (if any) do you trust?

The difference in us is probably that you trust those who would curtail freedom of speech 'where necessary', I dont. Who gets to decide what is necessary? The articles from the BBC scare me and I to be honest am now wondering whether my agreement with the buffer zones was the right decision. The progressives have lost a lot of feminists and now they are losing the free speech people, maybe they can afford those losses who knows.

And I support you on that Galaxy, but thats because I believe on womens rights and safe spaces.

And one space that should also be safe is womens reproductive rights.

My sister, aged 19, our father recently suddenly dead, just starting uni, our mother in hospital, fell in love with. dreadful man, and became pregnant. (all true, honestly).

She had to have an abortion in her circs. she didnt tell me - she went alone.

Thinking she should have had to run any gauntlet at all appalls me.

Her freedom to have the care she needed was a "Freedom to..." and is an example of where some freedom of speech/action has to be curtailed.

There are some absolutes on freedom of speech but many hit indues of competing 'freedoms too and against" and any society has to make its decisions sometimes with great difficulty.

Again, calling Vance out, for his misogyny and his governments suppression of rights in the USA for sheer hypocrisy and lies.

Women have been dragged through the courts for saying men arent women, MN was the one place it was possible to talk about it in the early days, they were light years ahead of many other places. As I said the labour government seem to have agreed that there was/is a problem.

But love0c we can say those things! You just said them on a public forum … and it’s fine!

People disagreeing with your views is not the same as preventing you from expressing them.

Say whatever you want! I would argue that there’s more censorship on GN than in the UK at large.

The previous government had to bring in a law to ensure the support of freedom of speech within universities, the labour government paused this but the last I heard now support the legislation.

LizzieDrip - against men being allowed to be called women, men ending up in a women's prison, concerned about people being allowed into our country unvetted, being put up in hotels at my expense. The list is endless!!!!

That men cant be women. But surely you know this. Numerous court cases, one going on at the moment, etc, etc.

To those who say we don’t have freedom of expression in the UK, please tell me, what is it that you’re ‘not allowed’ to say?

If you’re too ‘afraid’ to say it, just tell me the topic.