Who DO (Trump and Vance) think they are?

Zelensky looked furious when speaking in Munich the other day, I imagine he can only think of all the Ukrainians killed fighting for their homeland. And he was right to say that now Europeans need to form their own army, the US administration has shown clearly where their loyalties lie, with Moscow. And of course the fact that there is a very lucrative deal to be done with Putin over rich minerals in the part of Ukraine Russia will claim, has governed Trump's response. He feels he can apply the 'ride rough shod over everyone' tactic he adopted as a business man.
Such hubris is breathtaking to say the least.

I think they're behaving very much as the European 'great powers' have done over the past 2 centuries. Carving up other people's lands and installing unasked for regimes.

We don't do it any more. But we've been telling the USA that it's the 'Leader of the Western World' for so long that Trump thinks that they not only lead it but they can order it to suit himself.

Well, Trump and his cronies have threatened a new world order.

We now have 3 world main powers China, Russia and USA and if Trump isn't careful he will be beaten by China.. He doesn't seem to realise that he needs Europe..

Trump should also be careful of Putin, he probably sees the president as a useful idiot who can further his own nefarious agenda in the region. Putin doesn't do 'best buds' with anyone.
My guess is Trump and his cronies will end up being authors of a new world order that leaves them out in the cold.

”My guess is Trump and his cronies will end up being authors of a new world order that leaves them out in the cold”

I agree Babs.

We in Europe need to stand together and look after ourselves now. Good riddance to Trump and his weirdos - they’ll lose out in the long run.

Whatever your view, it certainly works lighting a fire under the backsides of the euro political class. I have never seen them move so fast, not even during covid! Well done Trump.

What does it matter who they think they are? It is what they are that matters.

Two bullies who think they can run roughshod over everyone. Like all bullies they should be stood up to because if they get their own way once they will expct to get it every time.

Faced with a strong united opposition they are impotent. Putin knows a useful idiot when he sees one.

It's appalling the way Trump and Vance are dictating to Europe over Ukraine. Zelensky has said there will be no deal unless he is there. I hope he stands up to Trump.
He needs to stop interfering in other countries' politics and sort out the country of which he is the president.
The USA has more than enough problems for him to get on with.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Whatever your view, it certainly works lighting a fire under the backsides of the euro political class. I have never seen them move so fast, not even during covid! Well done Trump.

It certainly has. They’re having their own meeting tomorrow organised by Macron. They don’t like being left out. The meeting in Saudi Arabia is going ahead with representatives from the US and Russia. Various American secretaries of state have said Europe is not going to be left out but that they don’t like the sequence of events. That sounds about right. They are used to calling the shots and having meetings about meetings. Trump moves fast. He wants this sewn up.

Quote M0nica Sun 16-Feb-25 19:04:50
What does it matter who they think they are? It is what they are that matters
{{sigh}} It’s a turn of phrase - a * rhetorical question*
So why dismiss it so cavalierly?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Whatever your view, it certainly works lighting a fire under the backsides of the euro political class. I have never seen them move so fast, not even during covid! Well done Trump.

Trump wasn’t there FYI .
He was home coming up with the rather scary tweet : He who saves his Country does not violate any Law . Between Vance , Musk and Trump it has turned into a real clown show .

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Whatever your view, it certainly works lighting a fire under the backsides of the euro political class. I have never seen them move so fast, not even during covid! Well done Trump.

But what works?
What has been achieved?
Ukraine has been left out of its own peace talks and Putin has won the war thanks to Trump who will expect payment of half the rich minerals in the part of the Ukraine Putin claims.
That is nothing to be proud of.
It leaves Europe wide open to the real threat that Putin poses.
Am not sure that lighting a fire under people works unless you want to alienate allies and cause grudge wars that could impact upon ordinary American people when European countries put their tariffs up and boycott US goods.
We aren't playing silly beggars here. This will have serious repercussions.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Whatever your view, it certainly works lighting a fire under the backsides of the euro political class. I have never seen them move so fast, not even during covid! Well done Trump.

Totally agree Rosieandhermaw.

And FGT2, is just here to goad aand stir. But she should be very very careful with what she wishes for. She is in a tiny minority now- but people with her views are truly, really, terribly scary.

If we go down, FGT2 and her ilk will go down with us, that is for sure. I weep for our children and grandchildren- those who are now saying they could never bring children in this F***ed up world she loves.

@woodenspoon,
So you relish a close relationship between the US and Russia?
And the alienation of Europe?
Do you actually know what you are saying here?
Are you so against Europe that you would wish Putin upon us instead with Trump as his poodle?
My goodness we have sunk much lower than I thought.

One good thing though- is that so many who were perhaps considering voting for Reform, will see them bow and take the knee for Trump, Netanyahu and Putin - and will realise what they truly are about and keep well away.

Anyone who thinks Reform is about Sovereignty- will now know the truth!

Claremont

One good thing though- is that so many who were perhaps considering voting for Reform, will see them bow and take the knee for Trump, Netanyahu and Putin - and will realise what they truly are about and keep well away.

Anyone who thinks Reform is about Sovereignty- will now know the truth!

Yep, Trump sold Ukraine's sovereignty from under them to Putin. My heart bled for Zelensky in Munich the other day, for there stood a man betrayed with the deaths of his own people weighing heavy upon him.
Lesson learned. Never trust Trump or his cronies. If they do this to Ukraine they will throw any country under the bus.

No Babs03. I think you’ve read far more into what I said and are showing your own prejudice.

IF Trump manages to bring this war to an end we all benefit. I’m not one to want everlasting wars myself. I think of the money, billions, we are sending to Ukraine, money which could be better spent here in this country. I also think of the lives lost through these wars without end.

IF Trump manages to bring this to a close, and nobody really knows, it will benefit us all.

Not all European countries are our friends you know. They might say they are when they want our money, but I don’t believe they all are.

Like you, I’m entitled to my views. As a matter of interest weren’t you on another thread extolling the virtues of Iran, or was that another poster?

Good job we have you to enlighten us in our wayward thoughts Claremont.
Not.

No I wasn't extolling the virtues of Iran. A country doesn't possess virtues. I was saying is a beautiful country and the people are hospitable.
The regime is an abomination.
Nice try but no cigar.

I don’t smoke cigars Babs. Sorry to disappoint.

Claremont

One good thing though- is that so many who were perhaps considering voting for Reform, will see them bow and take the knee for Trump, Netanyahu and Putin - and will realise what they truly are about and keep well away.

Anyone who thinks Reform is about Sovereignty- will now know the truth!

I have never quoted myself- but I will make an exception.

Sovereignty FGT2 ? I call your support for Trump and Musk, and through them, Putin and Netanyahu- pure treachery and treason.

So good you said it twice!

Happy to say it again. Anyone I know who was wavering towards Reform, have come to their senses now.