Who DO (Trump and Vance) think they are?

You need to stop looking at bond sales as 'borrowings' and look at them as what they are, which is a safe investment service.

when war has needed us to borrow more it has been repaid.

That is because it was 'borrowed' from other countries (mostly the US in recent times). This isn't applicable now. Context is everything, David.

We havn’t had borrowing close to 100% of GDP in peacetime before, when war has needed us to borrow more it has been repaid.

As borrowing/creation has increased, the value of sterling has fallen, making imports more expensive increasing the cost of living. There is no free lunch we have to pay for the services we use, there is plenty of wealth that could be taxed.

If she wants to encourage stock market investment

Why should she encourage stock market investment if all it does is further enrich the finance markets already wealthy sectors? And get distributed in bonuses and inflated salaries?

We all know, surely, that investing in stocks and shares is risky. What right does the Chancellor have to force people into risky investments?

Silverbrooks

I think PBs should be repaid. It's only a relatively small part of the National Debt, £129 billion (4.6%) but would save 5 billion a year in prize money which is very unfairly distributed.

If Reeves is rumoured to be wanting to make changes to ISAs to encourage investment in the stock market why not do the same with PBs or just PBs?

I think PBs should be repaid

Try suggesting that on the Gnet PB threads 😂

The sale of treasury bonds, premium bonds and national savings accounts are all ways that the government has of taking excess money out of circulation to damp down demand led inflation.

Government finances don't work like household and business finances. Governments have different priorities. Public sector spending is not a money making enterprise, but lays the foundations for a healthy population and the infrastructure that people and businesses need to thrive. And the government has one power that businesses and households don't have, they can create our legal money.

Worrying about 'the national debt' is pointless. We've lived with one for 300+ years....

Changing ISA's is another of Reeves stupid ideas. On the contrary, if she wants to encourage saving she needs to have tax efficient offers on hand for small savers.

The most basic financial advice says that if you only hav a small quantity of savings they shoukd be saved as cash.

If she wants to encourage stock market investment and getting more investing in it safely, what she should do, is put a cap on how much you could put in cash ISAs in total - say £100,000 - which might be saved up over 50 years by saving £2000 a year in a cash ISA, or over 5 years at £20,000 a year.

If Reeves just reduces cash ISAs to, say £5,000 a year, many, if not most people with cash ISAs will not then buy Unit trusts or similar, they will simply put the remaining cash in the Building Society and manage without the tax free wrapper.

I think PBs should be repaid. It's only a relatively small part of the National Debt, £129 billion (4.6%) but would save 5 billion a year in prize money which is very unfairly distributed.

If Reeves is rumoured to be wanting to make changes to ISAs to encourage investment in the stock market why not do the same with PBs or just PBs?

Sorry, missed a bit from the last sentence. ‘Try asking gnet holders of Premium bonds if they want the government to repay them and…’ etc

M0nica

MaizieD

David49

The fact remains that, IF we really believe Russia is a threat we need to spend at least double the amount we do now, which will mean taxes go up a lot.

No they won't.

Did taxes 'go up a lot' when the government spent £37 billion on the covid pandemic?

They didn't because the government borrowed most of the money from other entities and now a huge tranche of our tax revenue is paid to them

I quote from The Office of Budget Responsibility Debt interest spending reached a post-war high of £111.6 billion in 2022-23, or 4.4 per of GDP, as inflation reached a 40-year high and interest rates surged. While debt interest spending has since fallen from this record, it is forecast to remain at historically elevated levels over the next five years.

Perhaps taxes should have gone up a bit during the COVID pandemic then we might have £10 or £20 billion available to spend on defence.

The Bank of England created the money to buy bonds on the bond market and new bonds issued by the Treasury. So the BoE ‘owns’ the purchased bonds and the Treasury pays the interest on them to the B oE. It’s a completely artificial operation, the BoE is state owned, in effect the state is paying interest to itself. That debt interest is an accounting fiction. So you can deduct it from the interest paid on all government issued bonds.

As for the remaining bonds that have been issued over the years,(the supposedly ‘borrowed’ money) the bondholders don’t actually want to be unilaterally repaid, they want the interest. As a lot of pension funds are invested in government bonds, because they are the very safest investment they can make, it would cause chaos and consternation if the government were to ‘repay’ them.

Try asking gnet holders of Premium Bonds (which are also part of the ‘debt’) and you’ll get a pretty short answer…

MaizieD

David49

The fact remains that, IF we really believe Russia is a threat we need to spend at least double the amount we do now, which will mean taxes go up a lot.

No they won't.

Did taxes 'go up a lot' when the government spent £37 billion on the covid pandemic?

They didn't because the government borrowed most of the money from other entities and now a huge tranche of our tax revenue is paid to them

I quote from The Office of Budget Responsibility Debt interest spending reached a post-war high of £111.6 billion in 2022-23, or 4.4 per of GDP, as inflation reached a 40-year high and interest rates surged. While debt interest spending has since fallen from this record, it is forecast to remain at historically elevated levels over the next five years.

Perhaps taxes should have gone up a bit during the COVID pandemic then we might have £10 or £20 billion available to spend on defence.

Definition of Ad hominem:
When the argument/debate being made by one party is so weak they feel the only way to defend it is by verbally attacking the opposition on their character,physical attributes or any other personal details.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

The same goes for other sides, judging by the repeat posts on gn🤣

Yes, it would take a lot to convince MAGA hardliners. When it hits food prices even more, medicaid is seriously taken apart, their social security systems ravaged, it might be different.

When people are convinced (indoctrinated), no amount of facts changes their perspectives.

Are there any US Republicans here (or friends/relatives) who can comment on Trump's lies in a positive and constructive light, or at least a 'neutral' view, and give us an idea of how you believe he sees Europe and also the UK? I would really like to know how the 'ordinary' Republican reads Trump's utterances and plans.

rbnpow

Most on Gransnet are old enough to know the real truth about the dangers of the far right, and dictators like Trump. We remember as children having kids arrive in our class from war torn countries where their family escaped annihilation by far right armies.
We knew this before unpalatable truths became "fake news" in an attempt to white wash it and sanitizer it.
Now we see it rising again and know the fearful consequences

And old enough to have fathers/uncles etc., fighting against fascism.
They must be spinning in their graves.

Whitewavemark2

King Donald😡😡

He may have said "THE king" ie Elvis. In my opinion, whatever his actual words, his mind was thinking of a crowned king. Modesty is not one of his biggest attributes. He has to be at the top of the pile, and King would be his chosen role. This would be a big mistake by him! Americans are hostile to any hint of a monarchy.

King Donald😡😡

I was listening to a webinar last night with a woman who used to be a British Ambassador and now lives in Washington.. She said that Trump is causing absolute chaos in America and that people are beginning to realise that he is not improving their lives.. She fears violent civil unrest in Washington.. and went as far as saying that she has bought a gun..

If Americans understand anything that comes out of his mouth, good for them. Trump isn’t on our wavelength in the Uk so we run the risk of misunderstanding his message if there’s any meaning to understand. He’s firmly their leader and not ours.

Who they are? Well, Trump thinks he is a King. www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/king-trump-rcna192912

He probably thinks he is like Charles III. More similarities to Charles I, and likely to meet the same end.

Lots of cartoons online with Donald Duck in full Coronation regalia.

David49

The fact remains that, IF we really believe Russia is a threat we need to spend at least double the amount we do now, which will mean taxes go up a lot.

No they won't.

Did taxes 'go up a lot' when the government spent £37 billion on the covid pandemic?

Someone needs to ask Trump what he might do if his country were invaded

Perhaps Canada and Mexico could perform a pincer movement .

The so-called "peace talks" are not peace talks at all unless the parties to the conflict are present.

Someone needs to ask Trump what he might do if his country were invaded. Would he not fight back? Would he give any credence to talks that did not include the US?

But logic does not come into it in any way any more. The US has an insane person at the helm.

RosieandherMaw - I too could weep.