Who DO (Trump and Vance) think they are?

The fact remains that, IF we really believe Russia is a threat we need to spend at least double the amount we do now, which will mean taxes go up a lot.

fancythat

Would you and others be willing to increase the Uk defence spending? Maybe by a huge amount?
Which to be fair to the Military, they have been warning about decreased spending for many years.

Yes.

Olga Maitland gave us a book which she wrote about Margaret Thatcher - I remain convinced defence spending should be priority.

fancythat

This thread has gone the other way from what was intended I think.

EU looks weak.

And the Uk sounding like it is turning into the US. In more ways than one.

Really?

rbnpow

Most on Gransnet are old enough to know the real truth about the dangers of the far right, and dictators like Trump. We remember as children having kids arrive in our class from war torn countries where their family escaped annihilation by far right armies.
We knew this before unpalatable truths became "fake news" in an attempt to white wash it and sanitizer it.
Now we see it rising again and know the fearful consequences

This thread has gone the other way from what was intended I think.

EU looks weak.

And the Uk sounding like it is turning into the US. In more ways than one.

David49

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

How are we going to pay for more than a modest increase? What will go? Are the public prepared for higher taxes for it?

The government will receive £ millions in taxes generated by extra productivity to supply and service stronger armed forces.

We will if that money on weaponry is spent the UK, will it?.

But they will still have to spend in the first place.

So it is [just] some money back.
Net is still minus.
By quite some way, possibly.

Most on Gransnet are old enough to know the real truth about the dangers of the far right, and dictators like Trump. We remember as children having kids arrive in our class from war torn countries where their family escaped annihilation by far right armies.
We knew this before unpalatable truths became "fake news" in an attempt to white wash it and sanitizer it.
Now we see it rising again and know the fearful consequences

GrannyGravy13

David49

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

How are we going to pay for more than a modest increase? What will go? Are the public prepared for higher taxes for it?

The government will receive £ millions in taxes generated by extra productivity to supply and service stronger armed forces.

We will if that money on weaponry is spent the UK, will it?.

UK weapons manufacturing is a growing industry.

More personnel, more uniforms, more housing, more everything to service the needs, all generate taxes.

More jobs created, more money spent in the economy = more income for the government.

You're a woman after my own heart, GG13. Government spending will generate more tax revenues. Well said

But surely both this and the last government would have increased spending rapidly and willingly if this were the case.

Perhaps it's the difference between what needs to be spent upfront and the eventual benefits, which would be some substantial time.

David49

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

How are we going to pay for more than a modest increase? What will go? Are the public prepared for higher taxes for it?

The government will receive £ millions in taxes generated by extra productivity to supply and service stronger armed forces.

We will if that money on weaponry is spent the UK, will it?.

UK weapons manufacturing is a growing industry.

More personnel, more uniforms, more housing, more everything to service the needs, all generate taxes.

More jobs created, more money spent in the economy = more income for the government.

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

How are we going to pay for more than a modest increase? What will go? Are the public prepared for higher taxes for it?

The government will receive £ millions in taxes generated by extra productivity to supply and service stronger armed forces.

We will if that money on weaponry is spent the UK, will it?.

Arto1s

They will not be excluded

You might wish to reconsider this confident assertion.

Wyllow3

How are we going to pay for more than a modest increase? What will go? Are the public prepared for higher taxes for it?

The government will receive £ millions in taxes generated by extra productivity to supply and service stronger armed forces.

How are we going to pay for more than a modest increase? What will go? Are the public prepared for higher taxes for it?

fancythat

Would you and others be willing to increase the Uk defence spending? Maybe by a huge amount?
Which to be fair to the Military, they have been warning about decreased spending for many years.

Totally in favour.

Strong in numbers, expertly trained and well equipped armed services provides a range of careers and qualifications.

They also generate jobs in many other areas supplying the military.

It also sends strong signals to leaders around the globe, acts as a deterrent to hostile governments.

Whitewavemark2

Frankly we have no choice but to increase our defence spending.

Totally agree

And that's exactly what Trump wants us to do

Frankly we have no choice but to increase our defence spending.

In the light of US disengagement with NATO, yes.

Those who believe that we should not be demonstrating "warlike" attitudes by increasing our defensive readiness have a slight point - but lying on our backs and exposing a vulnerable soft underbelly of UNreadiness while predators prowl round us is not a very good attitude either.

Would you and others be willing to increase the Uk defence spending? Maybe by a huge amount?
Which to be fair to the Military, they have been warning about decreased spending for many years.

ronib

I can’t get my head around the idea that the Uk is dependent on another superpower in this way. Of course Vance must mean that the USA no longer subscribes to net zero and woke ideology expanded under Biden and that is their prerogative. As it is ours to pursue them.

The point being made is that we cannot allow ourselves to be dependent for our defence on a country whose head of state makes no bones about A) his preference for closeness to a superpower which would love to exert its influence (financial and militarily) over us. and B) the fact that he is himself withdrawing support (financial and military) from NATO - the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation whose main reason for existence is all members supporting one another against any aggression by another power.

Imagine Trump taking the US so far into the orbit of Vladimir Putin and his friends that they are drawn into promising to support Putin in the event of a conflict. Given Trump's instinctive attraction to whoever convinces him that they are the most powerful player in any situation, that is an unwelcome but quite imaginable scenario.

We would have no chance at all of escaping becoming either a vassal state of Russia, or an Olde Englishe theme park under Trump.

I am not predicting this will happen - just warning that we have to be prepared to prevent it ever happening. A wise country with a wise government sees what could happen, and takes steps to make sure it doesn't.

We can vote with our purses.

I was looking for a cat feeder yesterday and the one I thought suitable was made in USA.

I have thought again, and found one made in Europe.

Businesses will soon get the message if they are left with stock made in USA - won’t re- order.

It's time the UK stood together. Trump, Vance, Musk and others have been trying to undermine us over the last months. They want to weaken
us and other European countries.
Weakness leads to compliance. Trump thinks himself leader of the Western world and he doesn't want any other country defying him.
We shouldn't give him an easy ride.

JaneJudge

why on earth is Trump even remotely bothered about Andrew Tate? wtf is going on

Trump has a penchant for releasing criminals who support him.

Rule of law is simply an inconvenience.

why on earth is Trump even remotely bothered about Andrew Tate? wtf is going on

Cossy

Whitewavemark2

The point is that europe has overall a bigger military power (except nuclear of course) than Russia, and look how dismally Russia military has performed in Ukraine.

What I’m trying to say is that we must consider defence without USA assistance, as the USA is no longer a dependable ally, or even an ally of any sort?

When Vance can tell us that our values no longer run in parallel with the USA and that we have no freedom of speech, yet his president is cosying up to a leader who has happily killed people criticising him and has never tolerated freedom of speech, then I think we need to re-evaluate our so called friendship.

Yes.

Of course..