Who DO (Trump and Vance) think they are?

I agree with your analysis thats it's questionable how far Trump really can see consequences in such a complex interactive situation.
He can't control things as much as he imagines he can.

David49

Babs03

fancythat

Unfortunately, since the end of World War II, Europe and Great Britain have encouraged the USA to consider itself the leader of the free world,

In what ways?

Mainly by jumping when the US stipulates how high.
And basically just being massive suck ups.

The US has been leader if the free world because it has the largest military force that can operate anywhere on the globe, it also has the largest economy. Over the decades they have made plenty of mistakes in their military expeditions, Trump does not intend to repeat them.

The very last thing he wants is to get involved in a war of attrition with Russia that could turn nuclear. He wants a settlement in Gaza because he does not want to keep supplying arms to Israel, he doesn’t much care how that is done as long as the fighting stops.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been very costly and achieved nothing in fact have made the situation worse. He also has to keep one eye on Taiwan, getting bogged down in Ukraine and Gaza might just tempt China to move against Taiwan.

I do think that Trump believes in what he is doing, but I am not convinced that he 'knows' what he is doing. He approaches politics in a transactional way as if he is running a business. Doing a deal with Putin over rich minerals in the part of Ukraine that Russia will keep. But politics is also about people, and I very much doubt that Gazans, other Arab nations or Ukrainians, are going to just go along with his plans for a new world order. Or Europeans including the UK for that matter. Of course you could say 'tough' there isn't much they can do about it. But is that true? Couldn't Trump's approach lead to even more conflict and unrest as well as grudge wars with Europe etc.

I agree Monica. I hate a world where its necessary to have an army at all, but peacekeeping is surely something sorely needed and something to be proud of, not isolation 'nothing to do with us".

Babs03

fancythat

Unfortunately, since the end of World War II, Europe and Great Britain have encouraged the USA to consider itself the leader of the free world,

In what ways?

Mainly by jumping when the US stipulates how high.
And basically just being massive suck ups.

The US has been leader if the free world because it has the largest military force that can operate anywhere on the globe, it also has the largest economy. Over the decades they have made plenty of mistakes in their military expeditions, Trump does not intend to repeat them.

The very last thing he wants is to get involved in a war of attrition with Russia that could turn nuclear. He wants a settlement in Gaza because he does not want to keep supplying arms to Israel, he doesn’t much care how that is done as long as the fighting stops.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been very costly and achieved nothing in fact have made the situation worse. He also has to keep one eye on Taiwan, getting bogged down in Ukraine and Gaza might just tempt China to move against Taiwan.

It is an enormous risk either way in my view.

Menopauselbitch

I hope all of you commenting agree with us sending our soldiers over there to be slaughtered.

Apart from the fact that British soldiers would be part of a NATO peace keeping force, you need to look at what might happen if we were not prepared to protect Ukraine.

Putin has nuclear weapons and will not worry about using them if he thinks he is faced with a supine and toothless NATO. He will not just use them on the Ukrainians, but in time on the Poles, not to mention other former Soviet states and on us if it serves his purpose.

We saw where apepasement got us in 1939. let us not repeat the mistake twice in a century.

We are living in very frightening times. Trump and Vance have made it very clear what their opinion of Europe is and my heart goes out to the Ukranian people. I fear that Putin will already have have his sights set on the next country he wants to invade.

So the BBC has just reported that there is talk of a phone conversation between Donald and Vlad about taking over and sharing the whole world.. I wonder what China thinks??

Indigo8

What a coincidence.

On 16 November last year Vladimir Shkyarov, principal male dancer with the Mariinsky Ballet Company of St Petersburg and international ballet star, fell to his death from the 5th floor balcony of his flat. He was 39.

An accident, of course, and nothing to do with the fact that he had criticised Putin for invading the Ukraine.

Indeed, and just reported another fall froma window when visited by security services.
www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/17/friends-of-russian-anti-war-singer-vadim-stroykin-cast-doubt-on-official-version-of-his-death
Definitely a pattern. In 2022 another death froma fall from a window.
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/01/russian-oil-executive-dies-in-fall-from-moscow-hospital-window he also criticised the policy on Ukraine.
And Trump wants to be a pal to Putin.

I hope all of you commenting agree with us sending our soldiers over there to be slaughtered.

Babs03

fancythat

Unfortunately, since the end of World War II, Europe and Great Britain have encouraged the USA to consider itself the leader of the free world,

In what ways?

Mainly by jumping when the US stipulates how high.
And basically just being massive suck ups.

And clearly really challenging sets of decisions we've not had to make ever before within our living memory.

After WW2 a lot of countries including ours were dependant on help from the USA because war torn Europe had help in re-buildng.

It came with strings attached - US bases right across Europe and of course cemented by the Cold War.

However, the way the USA chose to engage has been until now was work with not against other countries - membership of the UN, the WHO, and so on.

The US also chose to take its ideology abroad with the controversial invasion of Vietnam.

I think the cracks begun to show after that especially with the rise of the EU and difference on Middle East policy which included the debacle of Iraq.

Now we are faced with a hostile entity and ?

fancythat

^Unfortunately, since the end of World War II, Europe and Great Britain have encouraged the USA to consider itself the leader of the free world, ^

In what ways?

Mainly by jumping when the US stipulates how high.
And basically just being massive suck ups.

Well at least he has managed to save plastic straws.
It will work out if we can ignore certain strident voices and get closer to Europe, and work out a defence plan for ourselves. We can be Eurasia, USA would go into 0ceania and Russia be part of Eastasia.

Unfortunately, since the end of World War II, Europe and Great Britain have encouraged the USA to consider itself the leader of the free world,

In what ways?

wibblywobblywobblebottom

Trump is clearly insane, so it's difficult to know who he thinks he is. Vance is an inveterate liar so him and Trump are a match made in heaven. Though it's clear that Trump is after Ukraine's minerals, as he is after Canada's minerals. The less he has to pay for them the better.

To answer the OP directly, they think they are Wyatt Earp and Doc Halliday - on the world stage.

Good post, AuntieE

Vance has some nerve calling Europe out on freedom of speech. Trump has barred Associated Press reporters from the Oval Office because they continue to refer to the Gulf of Mexico.

Could we drop the in-fighting here and concentrate on what OP asked?

Trump is a business man withe folie de grandeur and apparently believes he can do no wrong. Whether Vance also believes Trump can do no wrong, or is only doing as he is told is not something I can express an opinion on.

It looks as if the pair of them think they can solve the entire problem caused by Putin's war with Ukraine without the considering what Ukraine wants or needs, and without listening to the opinions of the political leaders of the countries a great deal nearer Ukraine and Russia (all of us) than the USA.

Unfortunately, since the end of World War II, Europe and Great Britain have encouraged the USA to consider itself the leader of the free world, so right now the present generation of politicians in Europe are dealing with the whirlwind their parents' generation sowed.

The only faint glimmer of light I can see is, that by standing up to Trump, as Zelinsky, Macron and Ursula von der Leyden are doing seems to be inducing him to pipe down a little. Which goes to show that the man is a bully and can be dealt with, if we are prepared to make ourselves unpleasant enough, as all bullies can.

Trump is clearly insane, so it's difficult to know who he thinks he is. Vance is an inveterate liar so him and Trump are a match made in heaven. Though it's clear that Trump is after Ukraine's minerals, as he is after Canada's minerals. The less he has to pay for them the better.

I agree cossy. Some people have blinkers on and others are just as vile as Farage.

Claremont

One good thing though- is that so many who were perhaps considering voting for Reform, will see them bow and take the knee for Trump, Netanyahu and Putin - and will realise what they truly are about and keep well away.

Anyone who thinks Reform is about Sovereignty- will now know the truth!

Sadly I think many Reform supporters will support these terrible things!

youtu.be/m6nxJZOZdqE?feature=shared

He made that very clear during the campaign, particularly on September 5th, that if re-appointed he would lift all sanctions on Russia, to protect the Dollar.

GrannyGravy13

Churchview

GrannyGravy13

Claremont

The USA has announced they will be lifting financial and commercial embargo on Russia.

Source please?

There is nothing on BBC or mainstream media, I have just looked.

This is on the BBC now GrannyGravy13

10:07

More now from Moscow, where Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has been briefing reporters on Tuesday's US-Russian talks in Saudi Arabia.

Peskov is quoted by Russia's state-run Ria Novosti news agency as saying that the talks will be aimed at "restoring the entire complex of Russian-American relations, and about preparing possible negotiations on Ukraine".

So Russian spokesperson is basically jumping the gun by announcing what Russia thinks will happen at the talks in Saudi Arabia this week.

Nothing as yet has been agreed.

This was always the plan for Trump. He made it clear a long time ago.

nanna8

I sometimes wonder if the USA had not entered the war in WW2 if the Nazis would now be in power.

I don't think the USA had much choice after the US Pacific Fleet were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbour in December 1941.