Who DO (Trump and Vance) think they are?

Claremont : I appreciate your remarks and sentiments . It does give me a fright that there are so many Grans seem to admire Trump and his dangerous policies . With his remark that of recent making himself and his decisions more right than democracy he is truly entering the arena of dictatorship !

Is that grouping any different now from what it was before though? China was always very powerful but kept in the background. Russia not so much but the USA always put itself out as the leader of the Western World. I am glad lives will be saved but the cost is the worry and whether or not Putin has sights set on other countries besides Ukraine. I always wonder what Russian people living in that part of Ukraine were thinking. Did they support Zelensky or Putin ? I suppose we’ll ever know.

Well China has praised Trump for entering into dialogue with Putin, so looks like we have a new axis of evil folks, the US, Russia, and China.
Trump did promise a new world order.

Indigo8

What a coincidence.

On 16 November last year Vladimir Shkyarov, principal male dancer with the Mariinsky Ballet Company of St Petersburg and international ballet star, fell to his death from the 5th floor balcony of his flat. He was 39.

An accident, of course, and nothing to do with the fact that he had criticised Putin for invading the Ukraine.

That's the one I meant in my post earlier today.
What does Vance have to say about freedom of speech now?
(Rhetorical question)

I wonder how Greenland fits into this?

ronib

Now America is refusing to bankroll the war in Ukraine, does this mean defeat is a foregone conclusion? What, if any, are the options?
Even if a better funded combination of European and Uk funding became available and the war continues, is this a good idea? Can Putin be defeated? At what cost to Ukraine? I imagine more information will come through this week but at the moment, it’s all very unclear.

If Ukraine can hold off Russia these last three years then surely the combined forces of Europe can do even better.

What the alternative?

Where will Russia stop? The Baltic States are in his sights too. And of course China wants Taiwan.

Re the original question. Trump thinks he’s god. Musk knows Trump is an idiot who is flattered by being,Big Buddies with the Richest Man in The World. Musk is using him to gain money and power.

It is unclear ronib, but what is crystal clear is that Trump had peace talks with Putin and didn’t include Zelensky, just imagine that for a moment. Is totally unheard of. I mean imagine if during the troubles with NI the president of the US had drawn up an agreement with Sinn Fein but not included the UK. Is just not done. Ever.

Now America is refusing to bankroll the war in Ukraine, does this mean defeat is a foregone conclusion? What, if any, are the options?
Even if a better funded combination of European and Uk funding became available and the war continues, is this a good idea? Can Putin be defeated? At what cost to Ukraine? I imagine more information will come through this week but at the moment, it’s all very unclear.

What a coincidence.

On 16 November last year Vladimir Shkyarov, principal male dancer with the Mariinsky Ballet Company of St Petersburg and international ballet star, fell to his death from the 5th floor balcony of his flat. He was 39.

An accident, of course, and nothing to do with the fact that he had criticised Putin for invading the Ukraine.

Yes well that might be the problem Claremont that people think the people they know are somehow representative.

Good post RosieandherMaw*

Oh you jest beau! Have you seen support for Reform UK lately?

Anyway that deflection from the topic at hand.
Apologies Maw.

Happy to say it again. Anyone I know who was wavering towards Reform, have come to their senses now.

So good you said it twice!

Claremont

One good thing though- is that so many who were perhaps considering voting for Reform, will see them bow and take the knee for Trump, Netanyahu and Putin - and will realise what they truly are about and keep well away.

Anyone who thinks Reform is about Sovereignty- will now know the truth!

I have never quoted myself- but I will make an exception.

Sovereignty FGT2 ? I call your support for Trump and Musk, and through them, Putin and Netanyahu- pure treachery and treason.

I don’t smoke cigars Babs. Sorry to disappoint.

No I wasn't extolling the virtues of Iran. A country doesn't possess virtues. I was saying is a beautiful country and the people are hospitable.
The regime is an abomination.
Nice try but no cigar.

Good job we have you to enlighten us in our wayward thoughts Claremont.
Not.

No Babs03. I think you’ve read far more into what I said and are showing your own prejudice.

IF Trump manages to bring this war to an end we all benefit. I’m not one to want everlasting wars myself. I think of the money, billions, we are sending to Ukraine, money which could be better spent here in this country. I also think of the lives lost through these wars without end.

IF Trump manages to bring this to a close, and nobody really knows, it will benefit us all.

Not all European countries are our friends you know. They might say they are when they want our money, but I don’t believe they all are.

Like you, I’m entitled to my views. As a matter of interest weren’t you on another thread extolling the virtues of Iran, or was that another poster?

Claremont

One good thing though- is that so many who were perhaps considering voting for Reform, will see them bow and take the knee for Trump, Netanyahu and Putin - and will realise what they truly are about and keep well away.

Anyone who thinks Reform is about Sovereignty- will now know the truth!

Yep, Trump sold Ukraine's sovereignty from under them to Putin. My heart bled for Zelensky in Munich the other day, for there stood a man betrayed with the deaths of his own people weighing heavy upon him.
Lesson learned. Never trust Trump or his cronies. If they do this to Ukraine they will throw any country under the bus.

One good thing though- is that so many who were perhaps considering voting for Reform, will see them bow and take the knee for Trump, Netanyahu and Putin - and will realise what they truly are about and keep well away.

Anyone who thinks Reform is about Sovereignty- will now know the truth!

@woodenspoon,
So you relish a close relationship between the US and Russia?
And the alienation of Europe?
Do you actually know what you are saying here?
Are you so against Europe that you would wish Putin upon us instead with Trump as his poodle?
My goodness we have sunk much lower than I thought.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Whatever your view, it certainly works lighting a fire under the backsides of the euro political class. I have never seen them move so fast, not even during covid! Well done Trump.

Totally agree Rosieandhermaw.

And FGT2, is just here to goad aand stir. But she should be very very careful with what she wishes for. She is in a tiny minority now- but people with her views are truly, really, terribly scary.

If we go down, FGT2 and her ilk will go down with us, that is for sure. I weep for our children and grandchildren- those who are now saying they could never bring children in this F***ed up world she loves.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Whatever your view, it certainly works lighting a fire under the backsides of the euro political class. I have never seen them move so fast, not even during covid! Well done Trump.

But what works?
What has been achieved?
Ukraine has been left out of its own peace talks and Putin has won the war thanks to Trump who will expect payment of half the rich minerals in the part of the Ukraine Putin claims.
That is nothing to be proud of.
It leaves Europe wide open to the real threat that Putin poses.
Am not sure that lighting a fire under people works unless you want to alienate allies and cause grudge wars that could impact upon ordinary American people when European countries put their tariffs up and boycott US goods.
We aren't playing silly beggars here. This will have serious repercussions.