Zelensky - is Trump ousting him out to make way for a Putin choice?

I’m not so sure, if USA wanted to, it could beat Russia in its current weakened state, if it was just those two powers involved. The big risk of course is that it wouldn’t be.

foxie48

Putin is playing Trump as a fool. Trump thinks he's respected by Putin, nothing is further from the truth and Putin will renege on any deal he makes with Trump.

True. And if Trump imagines that - should Ukraine fall - he will be allowed to share any rich pickings, then he's in for a shock.

Putin wants 100% - and it'll be two political fingers to Trump.

David49

M0nica

None of this detracts from this remarkable and direct speech. Europe is an area that stretches beyond the EU and if they can come together to support Ukraine, a lot is possible.

Denmark has good reasons to talk tough with Trumps ambitions over Greenland , you wouldn’t expect anything different. At the end of the day they will fall in-line with the rest of Europe

You seem to have little love for your own country or its allies. Or am I misreading the constant thread running through your posts?

Stop the killing, duh!

I notice that Trump is threatening to send enough arms to Israel to finish the job ( Trump's words) . Doesn't sound as if he wants to stop there but of course he's keen to take over Gaza to turn it into a holiday resort! What a lovely man he is!

David the US has been supporting Ukraine's defence against Russia's invasion since it started and there has been no evidence that it's brought Europe or the US closer to war with Russia. What it has done is prevent a much bigger country taking over it's smaller neighbour. It's Trump's change of tack that's bringing war in Europe closer.

Putin must think Trump is a moron. Mind you, most of us do!

foxie48

Putin is playing Trump as a fool. Trump thinks he's respected by Putin, nothing is further from the truth and Putin will renege on any deal he makes with Trump.

Trump has already decided to sacrifice Ukraine, he does not want a war with Russia, everything else is window dressing.

Putin is playing Trump as a fool. Trump thinks he's respected by Putin, nothing is further from the truth and Putin will renege on any deal he makes with Trump.

Something I wonder, since Putin has no intention of giving up his view that Ukraine is part of Russia is
Does Trump think Putin will sign away rights to Ukraine minerals etc in the way he expects Zelensky to do?

Or perhaps the rest of Europe will fall in with Denmark?

M0nica

None of this detracts from this remarkable and direct speech. Europe is an area that stretches beyond the EU and if they can come together to support Ukraine, a lot is possible.

Denmark has good reasons to talk tough with Trumps ambitions over Greenland , you wouldn’t expect anything different. At the end of the day they will fall in-line with the rest of Europe

None of this detracts from this remarkable and direct speech. Europe is an area that stretches beyond the EU and if they can come together to support Ukraine, a lot is possible.

M0nica

I have just read an incredible speech by the Danish Prime Minister. She told Trump in no uncertain terms that Europe was onside with Zelensky and the Ukrainians.
www.kyivpost.com/post/47799

That was a week ago. As we know, a week is a long time in politics

Hungary would be a huge obstacle, Italy was totally opposed to sending soldiers.

But all that is irrelevant now.

Apparently the Moscow media is talking about “our partnership” with USA .

Satisfaction with what Trump is forcing onto Zelenskyy and pleased that Putin has not had to give an inch from his original demands.

I have just read an incredible speech by the Danish Prime Minister. She told Trump in no uncertain terms that Europe was onside with Zelensky and the Ukrainians.
www.kyivpost.com/post/47799

I think Trump and Vance did deliberately bait Zelenskyy so that they then had an excuse to withdraw aid . I believe that the Ukrainians were given a promise of US and European defence when they gave up their nuclear weapons . Either Trump is unaware of this or has chosen to ignore it ?

For Putin it's a further step in recreating an expanded Russia.

Aveline

For Trump this was just another financial deal. For Zelensky it was about his nation. For Europe it's turning point. Turning our faces against America.

Exactly .

I see ( Independent )Vance is reporting that US is working with the Russians on Ukraine plan.!

Going back to the wording of this thread, Trump is the Putin choice.

For Trump this was just another financial deal. For Zelensky it was about his nation. For Europe it's turning point. Turning our faces against America.

I don’t know foxie48. For Putin, the thought of the whole of Europe re-arming itself and prepared to stand together can’t be a comfortable position either because it will thwart his dream of regaining the USSR. It’s actually exactly what he didn’t want to happen.

Putin will be loving this, it is playing completely into his hands and tbh I think this was the intention. Trump doesn't understand the words "honour" or "trust" everything is based on getting the best deal and if he hands Ukraine over to Russia he won't care a jot. Will the American people care though? Many won't but hopefully most will.

We will see what happens next Zelensky didn’t need to be told that he couldn’t carry on without US support, now everyone knows, Ukrainians know too. Europe will offer support but that’s not going to include military aid.

Zelensky is going to have to come back cap in hand for what deal he can get or surrender to Russia because he can’t fight on with out the US. Whatever the negotiations result in I hope the humiliating spectacle on TV isn’t repeated.