Zelensky - is Trump ousting him out to make way for a Putin choice?

China, Russia and USA will have the world stitched up soon
It's frightening, isn't it.

I thought Vance was particularly unpleasant.. It was like a dual act that Trump and Vance had planned in advance.. I really respect Valensky for holding his ground even when he didn't achieve anything..

China, Russia and USA will have the world stitched up soon

Disgusting behaviour.

What was Trump actually bringing to the table to relieve matters?
Nothing. Nothing out of his own talks with Putin, nothing to offer Zelensky back.

Just disgraceful behaviour! Ukraine can't agree to this deal unless there is some guarantee that Putin will not invade again once he's regrouped and re-armed. I am so angry for Zelensky and the Ukrainian people, Trump and Vance's behaviour towards Zelensky was just vile bullying! My goodness, we need to keep the US at arms length and start taking our part as a European country, we can no longer rely on the US being a friendly ally with Trump in power.

Extraordinary row, Shocking behaviour from Trump and Vance.

BBC News - www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c625ex282zzt
Trump tells Zelensky 'make a deal or we're out' in angry White House meeting - follow live - BBC News
Zelensky being berated like a naughty child. No diplomacy being shown here.

Having just watched the press conference I’m astounded. It was awkward viewing. Trump needs to realise he isn’t doing business deals. This is geo politics and the horrors the people of Ukraine have endured deserves to be acknowledged. The way Zelenskyy was spoken to was disgraceful.

There only 3 really big sharks, ruling the major powers, Putin, Trump & Xi, they will decide what happens to Ukraine.

I wonder what would have happened if Harris had been elected?

Trump doesn't care if he is being used by Putin- he only cares about making some money out of a deal.

Putin doesn't care about Trump- he only cares about saving face after a disastrous attempt to invade Ukrine.

Zelensky only cares about Ukraine and has shown this time and again.

I have no idea how this is going to end- and neither does anyone else...

David49

Namsnanny

Whitewavemark2

Appeasement is never a good look

Easily said Wwmk2, if you arn't the one paying the price.

Neville Chamberlain was hailed as a heroic statesman at the time.

Chamberlain knew Britain wasn’t prepared for a major war, much the same position now, Europe the same. Europe on its own can’t do anything without US fully committed, all the leaders recognize that. At least the slanging match has stopped and they are talking seriously.

Not sure I quite understand you david49 - are we (you and I) saying the same thing?

M0nica

Of course Trump wants Zelensky out and Putin's chocie in.

Trump sold out to the Russians years ago.

Forgive me for asking you M0nica as I see many people saying the same thing, but is there an explanation somewhere of how Trump sold out to the Russians?

Did he get contracts, money, rights to start business in Russia? Or something else?

Putin is corrupt and has amassed a personal fortune, often in his 'trusted' oligarchs names, but am I right in thinking Russia can be compared to Italy in terms of manufacturing GDP? So quite small compared to USA.

Doesn't the interference from the USA - Victoria Nuland show a case for the USA Biden or CIA as being the beneficiaries of back channel nefarious dealings?

Don't think for one moment that I believe DJT isn't susceptible to corruption.
I just don't know.
I do know the public are susceptible to propaganda, spin and a lack of information.

Namsnanny

Whitewavemark2

Appeasement is never a good look

Easily said Wwmk2, if you arn't the one paying the price.

Neville Chamberlain was hailed as a heroic statesman at the time.

Chamberlain knew Britain wasn’t prepared for a major war, much the same position now, Europe the same. Europe on its own can’t do anything without US fully committed, all the leaders recognize that. At least the slanging match has stopped and they are talking seriously.

Trump just sees the mineral deal as payment for the help the US has given to Ukraine so far. He doesn't want to carry on with the defence of Ukraine and leaves it to Ukraine s neighbours.
I hope that if US personnel are in Ukraine and Russia does strike again that the EU says it's only responsible for Ukraine and the US can look after it's own people.

Whitewavemark2

Appeasement is never a good look

Easily said Wwmk2, if you arn't the one paying the price.

Neville Chamberlain was hailed as a heroic statesman at the time.

Exactly Wyllow

I hope Starmer is persuasive. 🤞
And then that Trump honours it.

Correction - Sign a deal.

Well thats one of Starmers efforts today - has to be US back up. I won't blame him if he gets a blank no, but I dont see how Zelensky can sign a dal tomorrow - as Trump keeps saying - for mineral rights without the defence to go with it.

Never heard something so ludicrous - US insisting the EU protect the US mining in Ukraine. IN return for what?

I wonder what "concessions" Trump has really won from Russia as regards the border?

do the deal and defend that deal?

Zelenskyy wants security for his country.
No security means the "deal" is barely worth the paper it's written on.

Putin is unable to honour "a deal"
... and sadly so is Trump - and neither the UK nor America have honoured "deals" in the past.

I agree with Zelenskyy - in my opinion if Trump wants shares in Ukraine's natural resources he should secure (with help ftom others), their safety ftom Putin.

The Trump is being arrogant, he can afford to be because he’s the only one that can end the war in Ukraine. There is no way that Europe is going to do anything without US guarantees.

The US has tried to get advantage through war, it certainly did In WW1, WW2, and Korea, but not Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, at that time the US wanted them to become democracies, which failed miserably, cost the US Billions of dollars with hundreds of thousands of lives lost.

Trump has changed that, dont interfere with their way of government, don’t fight, do the deal and defend that deal.
That’s pretty much the way China works loans in exchange for resources, Trump is a bully for sure but he realizes he can’t bully Putin because Putin will fight, that’s the best that can be achieved.

A bit from todays timeline from Trump on BBC feed

(Nobody apparently will mess with US workers in the Ukraine because Europe is going to provide security, not the US??)

Trump says the minerals deal "is a great deal for Ukraine too because they get us over there, we are going to be working over there

We will be on the land and that way there is going to be automatic security because nobody is going to be messing around with our people when we are there," he says

Trump was responding to a reporter who asked what kind of security guarantees he is willing to make as part of his mineral deal with Ukraine.

In his reply, he also says that he is "not going to make security guarantees beyond... very much

The arrogance.

"We're going to have Europe do that, because it's in... you know, we're talking about Europe is their next door neighbour," he says.

I'm not sure what you are saying David. I was just repeating what Zelenskyy had said. I'm not "getting too far ahead". This is exactly what is relevant now.... this is the deal he's trying to push for.

Ukraine has a law that no elections can take place whilst there's unrest. It's obvious that they can't do it logistically anyway but this law has been in place for about 10 years.

He was basically saying that if he was an impediment then he's happy to go. He said something like "if this is required to bring peace to my country".

David49

NotSpaghetti

Ukraine wants security for a share of mineral wealth.

Trump doesn't want to provide security.

Russia will do as it pleases if no security in place.

Zelenskyy said (yesterday I think) that there is no deal without security but he is prepared to resign if it means Ukraine is safe.

There will be an election in Ukraine when the war ends, it’s probably best if he isnt candidate, let’s not get too far ahead get an agreement first.

Well thats not a deal Ukraine or EU could accept is it?

Give way a third of the country, let Trump have his £££££££ minerals

* but with no responsibility or shelling out to keep Russia at bay*,

Zelensky resign for no purpose, Russia could decide to expand again

and us in Europe left to assist a shrunk Ukraine for Trumps benefit?

David49

eazybee

Trump out to get hold of Ukraine's mineral reserves.

His true colours.

Didn't take long.
Oh, Fried Green Tomatoes."

The US has always tried to get benefit out of helping friends, they did very well out of WW1 and WW2, Trump is following on that trait.
That aside he really doesn’t not want to get involved in a war with Russia, that could get really nasty.

Indeed, David.

We only need look back to Lend-Lease Act in 1941.

NotSpaghetti

Ukraine wants security for a share of mineral wealth.

Trump doesn't want to provide security.

Russia will do as it pleases if no security in place.

Zelenskyy said (yesterday I think) that there is no deal without security but he is prepared to resign if it means Ukraine is safe.

There will be an election in Ukraine when the war ends, it’s probably best if he isnt candidate, let’s not get too far ahead get an agreement first.

Ukraine wants security for a share of mineral wealth.

Trump doesn't want to provide security.

Russia will do as it pleases if no security in place.

Zelenskyy said (yesterday I think) that there is no deal without security but he is prepared to resign if it means Ukraine is safe.