Zelensky - is Trump ousting him out to make way for a Putin choice?

But I do agree with you that a united Europe needs to make their own plan, and soon. Probs waiting for the outcome of the German elections this weekend.

Nobody is joking about Trump being hoodwinked by Putin. It is too serious for jokes. If Ukraine had kept their nuclear weapons instead of disarming, on the promise of being kept safe by the USA and yes, Russia, then Putin would not have invaded.

wibblywobblywobblebottom

Trump should be kept well away from peace talks. Putin doesn't mind Trump being present because he knows he can exploit him. In Ukraine's case Trump only wants their minerals, for Trump profit is what matters. Same reason Trump is interested in Canada.

Yes Trump wants profit/income to tun the country their borrowings are even higher than UK at 125% of GDP, they get away with it because the Dollar is so strong and not sensitive to exchange rates. He wants to reduce borrowing not spend on wars that cannot be won.

A measured view from the ‘i’ newspaper this afternoon:

“ Good afternoon,

The received narrative is that Donald Trump has committed a great betrayal of Ukraine - by seeking a settlement with Vladimir Putin which Vlodomyr Zelensky is not involved in. Were it not for the US’s selfishness, Ukraine could have won the war.

Nonsense, says Patrick Cockburn. Europe has been juvenile in its thinking and approach to date. The historical importance of Ukraine to Russia goes back centuries - Russia was never going to let it be part of Nato. When Ukraine was at peak strength in the war two years ago, attempts at a diplomatic solution were mistakenly slapped down by the Biden administration:

“Somehow the Russian army was so strong that it threatened central Europe just like the old Red Army at the height of the Cold War. But at the same time, it was so weak that Ukraine could have as a war aim the recapture of Crimea and the Donbas through a military victory.

“Jibes about Trump being hoodwinked by the evil demon Putin are juvenile. So too is the offer by Sir Keir Starmer to send British troops to Ukraine, so long as they have guaranteed American military backing. This was described by one expert on Russia as “la-la land”, since Russia says it will not accept Nato troops in Ukraine and the US is determined not to be dragged into a military conflict there.

“Much better than perpetually sneering at Trump would be for European leaders to emerge from one of their incessant conferences with an achievable peace plan of their own.”

Cossy

foxie48

Nope I don't think that was the plan. Putin invaded in 2014 and got no push back keeping the territory he'd gained. He decided to try his luck again and I doubt anyone thought that Zelensky would become the inspirational leader that he is. So what Putin thought would be a pushover has turned into a real slog.
Trump is trying to get his hands on Ukraine's rare minerals. If he did cut a deal ( which I doubt) and managed to end the war, I wonder how happy he'd be to let Putin invade again or have a Putin puppet as president. There's still billions of dollars worth of resources in unoccupied Ukraine that would fuel US tech industries etc for many years.

But they belong to Ukraine and their people, why should Trump or Putin have ANY of it for free?

Obvious to those of us who are reasonable mortals of sound mind! Sadly we are not dealing with reasonable mortsls of sound mind. We are dealing with power hungry megalomaniacs, with no concern for anyone but themselves!

Cossy

I think this is Putin’s plan, greedy Trump just wants 50% of the minerals etc from the land.

Just like he wants ALL of Gaza.

B****r the citizens of these countries.

Trump, Musk, Putin and Netanyahu
don’t care about their people, they care about power, money and themselves.

Frankly, they are no better than the terrorists they decry.

Cruel Criminals ..

Agree with you 100% ..

"Frankly, they are NO better than the Terrorists they decry.

I am in shock. I was brought up to believe in the great Democracy of the USA. I now see that old man trump wants to change everything.
The USA is now a friend of Russia and I say
The friend of my enemy is my enemy.

Boycott the usa. Do not visit and support their economy.

Why would Trump act against Putin when he wants to act in a similar, if not same way? Ie: invade a country which is not his
Everyone should have been aware of this.

Trump should be kept well away from peace talks. Putin doesn't mind Trump being present because he knows he can exploit him. In Ukraine's case Trump only wants their minerals, for Trump profit is what matters. Same reason Trump is interested in Canada.

Caro41

Trump’s attitude towards Ukraine is all part of a much wider agenda. He wants to drive a wedge between China and Russia by appeasing, in fact positively cosying up to , Russia . The whole world order is changing and a China, Russia and , possibly, India power block could be the prospect for the future.

True, Trump is wary of China. The sanctions have pushed Russia closer to China and if the war is escalated China could easily start supplying Russia openly.
Secondly if the US gets bogged down in Ukraine, China could move against Taiwan that would cause a big problem.

If those 2 scenarios are taken into account he is being advised to settle Ukraine at any price, that may be what’s happening.

Cossy

I think this is Putin’s plan, greedy Trump just wants 50% of the minerals etc from the land.

Just like he wants ALL of Gaza.

B****r the citizens of these countries.

Trump, Musk, Putin and Netanyahu
don’t care about their people, they care about power, money and themselves.

Frankly, they are no better than the terrorists they decry.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of Trump. I am sure you are right in saying that Trump wants Ukraine's minerals, but if that was all he wanted, he would do better to back Ukraine than Russia.

To me, it has always looked as if Trump wants to go down in history, as the man who ended the war that was ruining the Western World's economy - he does not care whose country Ukraine is now, or will be after a peace is brokered. If peace can be attained by selling Ukraine to Russia and either seeing Zelinsky shot or imprisioned by Putin, then Trump will contenance both moves, just as long as he comes out covered with glory in the eyes of his supporters back home.

He has clearly shown us that he doesn't care a hoot for Europe, Britain or the Commonwealth countries. Whether he is fool enough to believe that if he lets Putin take Ukraine, then Putin will back Trump when Trump annexes Panama, and tries to annexe Canada, and Greenland, I do not know.

As to Gaza - dream on, Mr. Trump. No-one in the Middle East or out of it is going to let you have it!

No Muslim state wants an American protectorate in Gaza, and if King Abudullah II of Jordan resembles his father at all, which I have always thought he does, he and his diplomats will be working very hard right now to thwart Trump.

The great difficultly with Trump is knowing what he means seriously, and what he just says off the top of his head and later is forced to realise just is not ever going to happen.

One of the great dangers is that Trump believes he can dictate to NATO and as Putin does not want Ukraine joining NATO, Trump will probably promise him that that will never happen, if indeed, he has not already done so. It was stated last week that Putin will dicuss Ukraine joining the EU, but not NATO. If this is true, where did that idea come from - the pretext for Putin's "military exercise" was Ukraine negotiating with EU for entry.

Putin and Trump may have short memories, but the rest of us can think back to 2022 quite well.

And so much depends on the results of the election in Germany this week-end.

We may not have the 'stomach for a war' with Russia, but then neither did Ukraine. Russia gave them no choice. What choice will an emboldened Putin give to our allies bordering Russia?

On the BBC news today they were saying that European nations feel a great sense of betrayal with the way Trump is cosying up to Russia. I know what they mean. I feel it too.

Trump’s attitude towards Ukraine is all part of a much wider agenda. He wants to drive a wedge between China and Russia by appeasing, in fact positively cosying up to , Russia . The whole world order is changing and a China, Russia and , possibly, India power block could be the prospect for the future.

Whitewavemark2

The point is david. we are not solving Ukraine.

The whole thing is being made a done deal between two dictators who are supporting each other.

POTUS and Putin can decide whatever they like but unless President Zelenskyy and his government agree, their decisions are worthless.

This is beginning to look like two little men willy waving to assert their own self importance.

The point is david. we are not solving Ukraine.

The whole thing is being made a done deal between two dictators who are supporting each other.

Claremont

Remember Kamala Harris warning about the risks for Poland?

Poland is on guard for sure but has a large well equipped army and is a NATO member, lets solve Ukraine first, then reinforce European defence systems

Remember Kamala Harris warning about the risks for Poland?

Nor does it mean that Putin will stop there. He has nothing to prevent him doing so.

vintage1950

David 49, then perhaps another offer should be sought which does assure a free and independent Ukraine - which is what exists at the moment in areas not occupied by Russia.

Yes most of Ukraine is free at present the problem is neither side accepts that the war will end.
If Ukraine accepts that Russia keeps what they have occupied and agrees to stop fighting with no NATO troops in any peace keeping force I don’t see any reason for the not war to end.

That does not mean they will be free of Russian influence.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Appeasement is never a good look

Whilst I totally agree with you Whitewavemark2 I am not sure that Europe has the stomach for the alternative - NATO at war with Russia.

I don’t think it will come to that.

Europe needs to stand up to both bullies, offering an alternative peace deal, which does not include compromising either Ukraine’s democracy or its mineral resources.

It is absolutely outrageous what the two dictators are trying to do.

Trump is doing the same in Gaza, except in this case ethnic cleansing and annexing the land - because he thinks he can. The Middle East needs to stand up to him and stop bloody pussyfooting around the big bully.

Trump will be quite happy for Putin to take Ukraine. He thinks he may be more likely to get the mineral deal with Russia. A USA /Russian alliance would be very dangerous for Europe.

The countries of Europe (and that includes us) are going to have to step up or Russia will invade another country. Russia is relatively weak ATM, it is having to release convicts to fight in Ukraine but if Putin gets the sort of deal that Trump is trying to negotiate, it will give him gains in Ukraine and the opportunity to regroup before his next act of aggression.

Trump is trying to rewrite history with Zelensky as the cause of the war with Russia. Does he really believe the majority will believe this.
It's a bit like the old joke. Man to policeman "well his face got in the way of my boot"