Shoul we consider something like the Canadian proposal?

Our ties with Europe will have of necessity to be much strengthened.

It has started with defence, and will continue with the economy I am sure.

We do need to wean ourselves away from the US and become a stronger Europe. Reliance on the US is no longer viable.

Maybe Europe should form a common market and work together.........oh whoops

Yes, we need to unite with Europe and cut as many ties with the US as we can

I would be really happy if we strengthen ties with Europe. Rejoining the single market would help us against Trump, I think.

OldFrill

Maybe Europe should form a common market and work together.........oh whoops

amusing...

OldFrill

Maybe Europe should form a common market and work together.........oh whoops

The irony is that the EU has the excellent 'Single Market', instigated by the UK, and we threw away our membership of it, erecting self defeating trade barriers, with the Brexit vote.

Cossy

Yes, we need to unite with Europe and cut as many ties with the US as we can

Personally, I don’t want to sever ties with the USA, but I hope to see changes that enable democracies to collaborate with them. I believe this will take several years, and in the meantime, perhaps an assembly(?) of democracies can work together towards establishing leadership in the free world.

Blimey that is ambitious.

No harm in ambition though

MaizieD

OldFrill

Maybe Europe should form a common market and work together.........oh whoops

The irony is that the EU has the excellent 'Single Market', instigated by the UK, and we threw away our membership of it, erecting self defeating trade barriers, with the Brexit vote.

Maybe that irony could move into something more positive. We need to acknowledge there were issues with the EU structure, but it's a pretty good foundation to build on.

Whitewavemark2

Blimey that is ambitious.

No harm in ambition though

That made me smile Whitewavemark2. You're right; it's incredibly ambitious. I think that's what we're going to need though. The main challenge is that different ideologies direct ambition in different directions.

There is no way about it, in the future, in fact as from now, Europe can only look to Europe for its defence.

We need to boot the US out of NATO, (push it before it jumps), change the name to the ETO (European Treaty Organisation) open it to all countries in Europe whether they are members of the EU or not. This would include other countries threatened by the Russia/US axis, Moldavia, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine, all of us beef up our defence spending so that we turn the new ETO into a credible defence unit.

We need to end all dependence on the US for defence materials. Develop our own fighter planes, tanks, drones and guns.

Our big enemy now is Trump not Putin and we must play him at his own game.

I would also like to see the US booted out of NATO which would leave the US alone to stand against China and others. The only way is for Europe to work together to strengthen our defence.

M0nica

There is no way about it, in the future, in fact as from now, Europe can only look to Europe for its defence.

We need to boot the US out of NATO, (push it before it jumps), change the name to the ETO (European Treaty Organisation) open it to all countries in Europe whether they are members of the EU or not. This would include other countries threatened by the Russia/US axis, Moldavia, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine, all of us beef up our defence spending so that we turn the new ETO into a credible defence unit.

We need to end all dependence on the US for defence materials. Develop our own fighter planes, tanks, drones and guns.

Our big enemy now is Trump not Putin and we must play him at his own game.

Great post Monica, I agree it is the pragmatic way forward

Completely agree, Monica. Trump has squandered the so called special relationship, has shown that he has no regard for history, and also that he has no concept of contracts, of keeping your word, of generally being a decent, reliable ally. We certainly have the skills and technology to go it alone, as do most of Europe.

Monica hear hear

Yes to your post Monica

What chance Brexit now?

Sadly and never thought I'd hear myself say this. The USA is not to be trusted. Given how quickly a regime can turn, I'd be wary of trusting any country completely. It shows how quick a benevolent government or indeed a monarchy ( depending on the country), can turn.

The USA has not only threatened Canada with tariffs, but also threatened to take over Canada and make it the 51st state!!

They are following almost to a T the plan Hitler used to take over Germany.
I'm waiting for trump/musk to create a false crisis [like Hitler did with the fire in Germany's reichstag] to declare martial law.

Think it can't happen?? Neither did the German people at the time.

What a mess~~~~

Scary time for ALL of us as we may be facing WW 3.

Homestead62

Sadly and never thought I'd hear myself say this. The USA is not to be trusted. Given how quickly a regime can turn, I'd be wary of trusting any country completely. It shows how quick a benevolent government or indeed a monarchy ( depending on the country), can turn.

We did know in advance broadly what to expect, ie Project 25 policies, and Trumps way of working all too well known, but the way people are being treated home and abroad and the speed, bullying, the power Musk, unelected, has been given, and utter lack of consideration as to consequences has been breathtaking.

OldFrill

Maybe Europe should form a common market and work together.........oh whoops

It was a wonderful idea until the 7th February 1992.
That’s when millions of us said no, too much/ too far.

Homestead62

Sadly and never thought I'd hear myself say this. The USA is not to be trusted. Given how quickly a regime can turn, I'd be wary of trusting any country completely. It shows how quick a benevolent government or indeed a monarchy ( depending on the country), can turn.

It must have come as a shock to realise that the USA has never got involved/ invaded another country that did not have any financial / security gain for them.
I’m not referring to the man in the street. Generally speaking they are good guys but I’m afraid their governments stink.

This is just one incident they (and us ) orchestrated for which we are all in the west paying the price for.

foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releases-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/

Think it might be true that the only time NATO came to the defence of one of its Members was after 9/11, when the USA invoked the relevant clause. Ironic.
Now if Canada joined, it could still be called NATO.