Surely we must pay more taxes!?

Barleyfields

I have never heard anyone justify it like that. Probably they have faced criticism such as I have seen on here though and feel the need to defend their decision.

I'm not saying that you have heard it, just that I have😀. Two different experiences, and one doesn't cancel out the other.

Quite so. Nobody else’s business.

Why would anyone have to justify what they spend their surplus money on?

I say surplus as necessary bills (including taxes) along with feeding and clothing one’s dependants first should be a given.

That was to Doodledog.

I have never heard anyone justify it like that. Probably they have faced criticism such as I have seen on here though and feel the need to defend their decision.

Going back to the original question, of course we should pay more taxes, I support the current government but they were foolish to commit to not raising taxes for the working person, the statement in itself caused problems and the policy is causing even more problems. I don’t pay a lot of tax but would be happy to pay more and so would my DH.

BevSec

Casdon

BevSec

LizzieDrip

Hear hear MaizieD.

BevSec you do realise that being able to buy any pharmaceutical you want without a prescription is highly dangerous, don’t you.

It’s nothing to be celebrated!

Its everything to be celebrated. They say its on their own heads. I got some badly needed sleeping tablets yesterday after a sleepless night. Feel like a different person today. I would have be3n desperate otherwise. How is that so wrong?

You said you were an ex NHS employee BevSec, so I find it very surprising that you would call for ungoverned access to prescription drugs. You must have seen the impact of people who have had serious adverse reactions being admitted to hospital to be ‘rescued’, surely, it happens often.

Not one to my knowledge in all the years I worked for the NHS. We are all more than capable of knowing how to look after ourselves.

It is common, here’s a recent example related to the use of weight loss injections bought online.
www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/nhs-alert-over-surge-in-hospital-admissions-linked-to-weight-loss-jabs/ar-AA1uDwFZ

Doodledog

Barleyfields

That doesn’t mean it’s the reason they did it.

I know . It's how they justify it, which is not the same thing at all. That's exactly my point.

Why would anyone need to justify it anyway? What a strange world you live in!

Barleyfields

That doesn’t mean it’s the reason they did it.

I know . It's how they justify it, which is not the same thing at all. That's exactly my point.

Casdon

BevSec

LizzieDrip

Hear hear MaizieD.

BevSec you do realise that being able to buy any pharmaceutical you want without a prescription is highly dangerous, don’t you.

It’s nothing to be celebrated!

Its everything to be celebrated. They say its on their own heads. I got some badly needed sleeping tablets yesterday after a sleepless night. Feel like a different person today. I would have be3n desperate otherwise. How is that so wrong?

You said you were an ex NHS employee BevSec, so I find it very surprising that you would call for ungoverned access to prescription drugs. You must have seen the impact of people who have had serious adverse reactions being admitted to hospital to be ‘rescued’, surely, it happens often.

Not one to my knowledge in all the years I worked for the NHS. We are all more than capable of knowing how to look after ourselves.

Barleyfields

*BevSec*, I can’t believe you ‘celebrate’ being able to buy whatever drugs you want otc. You surely understand the huge problem of antibiotic-resistant diseases. I find what you say frightening. Is this how the next pandemic will start?

I am not quite sure of the connection between antibiotic resistant diseases and otc meds. Our Tui rep said antibiotics and other meds can be brought here and it is up to the individual to assess their own benefit/risk. At home to buy sleeping pills I have to go online to buy abroad with all the risks that carries. I was so very glad to get hold of some yesterday when I was desperate.

“I guess it's a case of such people wanting to hold onto as much as possible, whatever the amounts, which is quite normal.”

We all want to hold on to all of the money but we have
responsibilities, so we get taxes and the more we have, the more tax we pay. We all resent having to pay more tax.

That doesn’t mean it’s the reason they did it.

Barleyfields

Doodledog where have you seen or heard anyone claim that they are [opting for private medical treatment] for the benefit of others ?

I have often heard and read people saying that their going private has shortened the queue for people on the NHS. It's a common misconception (or justification, depending on your POV).

I was trying to get away from the 'personal', Norah.

escaped

^If looked at in terms of wealth distribution in the UK we can see that most of us are paddling in the shallows of the pool of wealth.^
That's probably true MaizieD even for those who enjoy high earnings or fat pensions, or who receive the odd inheritance or two.

I guess it's a case of such people wanting to hold onto as much as possible, whatever the amounts, which is quite normal. I have a list of things I want to hang onto my money for - mainly GC's education, home improvements, nice clothes and holidays, private health care where needed - but beyond that, I don't want very expensive cars or a yacht.
Neither am I bleating or screeching about paying the added 20% tax on my GC's school fees, I've had a little moan, but beyond that it's just a case of get on with life.
Do I really need those things mentioned above? Probably not, and this will now sound selfish - but having always had them, I might see it as reducing my standard of living, which, as it stands, is part of who I am, and what made me. (And by hook or by crook, I'd try to find a way of acquiring them somehow. 😃)

This.

I entirely agree escaped.

If looked at in terms of wealth distribution in the UK we can see that most of us are paddling in the shallows of the pool of wealth.
That's probably true MaizieD even for those who enjoy high earnings or fat pensions, or who receive the odd inheritance or two.

I guess it's a case of such people wanting to hold onto as much as possible, whatever the amounts, which is quite normal. I have a list of things I want to hang onto my money for - mainly GC's education, home improvements, nice clothes and holidays, private health care where needed - but beyond that, I don't want very expensive cars or a yacht.
Neither am I bleating or screeching about paying the added 20% tax on my GC's school fees, I've had a little moan, but beyond that it's just a case of get on with life.
Do I really need those things mentioned above? Probably not, and this will now sound selfish - but having always had them, I might see it as reducing my standard of living, which, as it stands, is part of who I am, and what made me. (And by hook or by crook, I'd try to find a way of acquiring them somehow. 😃)

BevSec, I can’t believe you ‘celebrate’ being able to buy whatever drugs you want otc. You surely understand the huge problem of antibiotic-resistant diseases. I find what you say frightening. Is this how the next pandemic will start?

Doodledog where have you seen or heard anyone claim that they are [opting for private medical treatment] for the benefit of others ?

David49

Altruism, LOL, in 2021 after being painful for some time my hip suddenly got much worse I was on the NHS list but waiting list was very long, so I cashed some of my pension and paid £15k private the following week.
Money well spent

Precisely why we've paid for four TKR, both knees for each of us - waits list considerably too long whilst in pain for us to wait.

Plus my husband's spinal stenosis, discectomy, and 40 yr re-do of first discectomy. These types of problems are debilitating.

Altruism, LOL, in 2021 after being painful for some time my hip suddenly got much worse I was on the NHS list but waiting list was very long, so I cashed some of my pension and paid £15k private the following week.
Money well spent

BevSec

LizzieDrip

Hear hear MaizieD.

BevSec you do realise that being able to buy any pharmaceutical you want without a prescription is highly dangerous, don’t you.

It’s nothing to be celebrated!

Its everything to be celebrated. They say its on their own heads. I got some badly needed sleeping tablets yesterday after a sleepless night. Feel like a different person today. I would have be3n desperate otherwise. How is that so wrong?

You said you were an ex NHS employee BevSec, so I find it very surprising that you would call for ungoverned access to prescription drugs. You must have seen the impact of people who have had serious adverse reactions being admitted to hospital to be ‘rescued’, surely, it happens often.

Casdon

BevSec

Casdon

Many people are public spirited BevSec, and care about others who are in less fortunate circumstances. Many also have ideological objections to private medicine for that reason, because they don’t believe in queue jumping.

The NHS still picks up the complex cases, and those who are treated privately initially when things go wrong too, so it’s a fallacy to suggest that private medicine saves pressures on the NHS. If consultants who work in both the NHS and privately could not work privately they would automatically have full time NHS contracts, thus increasing NHs capacity.

We are all public spirited as taxpayers, giving to foodbanks and charity shops, all of which I do, as well as the Lifeboats and Salvation Army. We all have social consciences. That is not the same issue as some on here wishing to “redistribute’ wealth, usually someone elses!

I have no ideological objections whatsoever to private medicine, just grateful for that choice . I used to work in the NHS.

It still comes across as the politics of envy imo.

People who earn above the threshold have no choice but to be taxpayers BevSec, it has absolutely nothing to do with them being public spirited. Not everybody has a social conscience, and small donations to organisations you support, whilst worthwhile, doesn’t amount to a social conscience either - that is about wanting a more equal society and being prepared to access services in the same way as everybody else so queueing to wait your turn.
It’s nothing to do with money in my case, I could afford private healthcare - I just don’t agree with the principle of it. As an ex NHS employee it would be selling my soul to use it, knowing it detracts from core services. The only exceptions I would make are for services that aren’t available on the NHS, like dental implants, because dentistry is now almost all private and paying for ‘frills’ is the only way of getting working teeth.

I would say it depends on how much in pain and desperate you become. I know many people who have had to pay privately in that situation. Principles tend to go out of the window imo in those circumstances. There is nothing wrong with being able to afford private healthcare. We cannot live in an equal world, its a lovely thought but unrealistic.

Barleyfields

Has anyone suggested that they opt for private medical treatment out of altruism Doodledog? People have said that it takes pressure off the NHS and that’s one person fewer on a waiting list but I haven’t noticed anyone claiming that that was the reason they did it.

Spot on, BevSec.

It doesn’t, though. Much private medical treatment happens in NHS hospitals and is carried out by doctors trained on the NHS. Someone in a queue has to wait longer because if not for the second and faster-moving queue their doctor would be free far sooner to treat them. Why do you think people opt to pay, if not to queue-jump?

In response to the earlier question about envy (I can’t quote directly for some reason) I object to people claiming altruistic reasons for queue-jumping out of a desire for fairness. And possibly Britishness, too - most of us have a strongly-held belief in queuing fairly 😀.

As I have reiterated to the point of tedium I understand and empathise with why someone in pain might go private - I just object to the claim that they are doing so to shorten the wait for others.