Well if Labour keep this up I think I’ll be voting for them at the next GE!

I think we can do without defenders of Boris. He was painfully slow to react to the dangers of Covid and allowed people to return from Covid-struck countries with no quarantine before re-entering the UK. He was just a good time boy who wanted to party and lied to Parliament about it afterwards.
His support for Ukraine was the only good thing about him and hopefully he is history now. His successors were so awful that they managed to make even him look good in some people's eyes.
Returning to the subject of the OP, Starmer had to do something about increasing defence expenditure in view of the latest circumstances. That's one example why, IMHO, manifestos are a waste of time.
Yes, we can argue about where the money should have come from but this is just a start. I think we can expect the next Budget to based on updated defence spending forecasts.

When the threshold for tax is raised to £20k I'd consider eating my hat - never ever going to happen so my hat feels entirely safe

Overseas aid is by no means 'silly': not only is it humanitarian, it gains "soft power' for the UK and, furthermore ..... who, or what, will step into the breach? Take a look at a map illustrating China's current influence on the African continent: it's very sobering .

And who, or what, steps into the overseas aid breach when we withdraw? Take a look at a map illustrating the current status of China's influence on the African continent: it's very sobering

They don't need to go that far. Just raising it to 14K or 15K would get my vote

Does the UK contribute a lot to basket weaving ,abroad?

I have to say, I was relieved to hear Starmer's reasonable tone yesterday, it's about time our politicians started to sound like adults again.

Now, if Isobel Oakeshott from Reform could just stop suggesting that poor families feed their children on porridge because it's so cheap, we might get back to sensible politics again!

AMVP

Overseas aid is by no means 'silly': not only is it humanitarian, it gains "soft power' for the UK and, furthermore ..... who, or what, will step into the breach? Take a look at a map illustrating China's current influence on the African continent: it's very sobering .

Yes, and why in that case are we still sending aid to China, or India for that matter. China have a tentacle approach to Africa, not sure it's a good thing.

OldFrill

PoliticsNerd

Ilovecheese

A tax on individuals whose net worth exceeds €100 million, something like what France has just brought in.

Can you tell me more or point me to relevant articles? TIA

Assume it's the French Wealth tax (2018) taxing owners with property exceeding €1.3million. It's been discussed in UK but so far, given experience in other countries, not considered worthwhile

Yes, that is the sort of thing I mean. I know that we always find excuses not to tax the wealthy, but maybe if in this case we could appeal to their patriotism as this time it is for defence, which would also benefit themselves. (not anything as unimportant as child poverty or cold pensioners)

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Me! Would’ve thought that? 😁
Credit where it’s due Starmer.

1. Cutting overseas aid (silly projects like basket weaving in wherever) to divert money to extra spending on defence.
Excellent idea.
2. Amanda (useless) Pritchard has come to disagree with Wes Streeting about the way forward for NHS England. Good. She’s on over £300,000 p.a. and her deputy not much less. Spending a huge budget - some of the woke nonsense I now expect will be curtailed. Don’t bang the door on the way out Amanda love.
3. Proposals being considered I hear (at the nail salon, only chatting, so no links or fact checking done - sorry everyone) for Rachel Reeves raising the Personal Allowance to £20k up from £12,600. That was one of Reform UK’s pledges which I really liked.

I’d never vote Tory again, lent my vote to Boris. Won’t trust them again plus I don’t rate Kemi Badenoch.

And Farage … I’m sorry but at this rate I think your Reform UK party might have peaked! If Labour keep doing sensible things (and finally listening to popular opinion) I’ll be voting for them at the next election. Credit where it’s due! 😮

Good on you FGT2 to give credit where it’s due! We certainly do need to spend more on defence. Other positives are the extra 2 million NHS appointments delivered (which I have personally benefitted from) and CBI on booming green economy creating more jobs.

What is this obsession with telling " poor" people what to feed their children?
Mr Anderson ( Reform) telling them to cook (from his cookbook? ) for 30p, and now Ms Oakeshott extolling the virtues of porridge.
For your information Ms Oakeshott, I loathe porridge at a deep and visceral level and attempts to persuade me to consume it resulted in tears and vomit.

I don't really understand how raising the personal allowance would cost so much money. Many people who earn less than that claim UC so that would offset quite a lot of it. I've always thought it's strange that the government taxes people who can't afford to live on their wages, so they have to apply for top up benefits as a result. Raising the allowance makes sense to me, and it would reduce costs for the DWP as well.

sazz1

People knocking Boris should remember he did a lot to help keep businesses going during the pandemic, including cost of living payments, furlow, eat out to help out etc. He seemed to care a lot about poorer people. Rishi wasn't too bad but was no good at negotiations. It was his way or the high way. But I did agree with his Rwanda project. Those who are horrified at this ask yourself
1 Are you happy with people drowning or suffocating to get here
2 Those with a spare room would you take in an illegal immigrant male with no paperwork to save the country paying hotel fees
3 are you happy with people born here sleeping in vans and tents while boat people are in hotels
4 Do you mind that these illegal immigrants get priority Dr, hospital and housing infront of us as they are classed as vulnerable
As for Starmer he seems to be targeting pensioners so not for me.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Ramblingrose22

I think we can do without defenders of Boris. He was painfully slow to react to the dangers of Covid and allowed people to return from Covid-struck countries with no quarantine before re-entering the UK. He was just a good time boy who wanted to party and lied to Parliament about it afterwards.
His support for Ukraine was the only good thing about him and hopefully he is history now. His successors were so awful that they managed to make even him look good in some people's eyes.
Returning to the subject of the OP, Starmer had to do something about increasing defence expenditure in view of the latest circumstances. That's one example why, IMHO, manifestos are a waste of time.
Yes, we can argue about where the money should have come from but this is just a start. I think we can expect the next Budget to based on updated defence spending forecasts.

I think we can do without defenders of Boris.

I will defend and carry on defending him as much as
I like. I do not need your permission thank you.

BevSec

sazz1

People knocking Boris should remember he did a lot to help keep businesses going during the pandemic, including cost of living payments, furlow, eat out to help out etc. He seemed to care a lot about poorer people. Rishi wasn't too bad but was no good at negotiations. It was his way or the high way. But I did agree with his Rwanda project. Those who are horrified at this ask yourself
1 Are you happy with people drowning or suffocating to get here
2 Those with a spare room would you take in an illegal immigrant male with no paperwork to save the country paying hotel fees
3 are you happy with people born here sleeping in vans and tents while boat people are in hotels
4 Do you mind that these illegal immigrants get priority Dr, hospital and housing infront of us as they are classed as vulnerable
As for Starmer he seems to be targeting pensioners so not for me.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Have we had an answer to the question of why people feel KS is 'targeting' pensioners?

Yes, the government has stopped paying £200pa to everyone over 66, but how is that 'targeting' pensioners? Isn't it better that those on low incomes are targeted for help, whatever their age, and those on higher incomes should pay their own bills?

I am no defender of means-testing workers, but in this case I can see the logic behind it, even though the uncharitable part of me objects to those who have been capable of it but who have chosen not to pay enough tax to get a full pension continuing to get a free ride and given more than those who have just above the threshold.

Doodledog

BevSec

sazz1

People knocking Boris should remember he did a lot to help keep businesses going during the pandemic, including cost of living payments, furlow, eat out to help out etc. He seemed to care a lot about poorer people. Rishi wasn't too bad but was no good at negotiations. It was his way or the high way. But I did agree with his Rwanda project. Those who are horrified at this ask yourself
1 Are you happy with people drowning or suffocating to get here
2 Those with a spare room would you take in an illegal immigrant male with no paperwork to save the country paying hotel fees
3 are you happy with people born here sleeping in vans and tents while boat people are in hotels
4 Do you mind that these illegal immigrants get priority Dr, hospital and housing infront of us as they are classed as vulnerable
As for Starmer he seems to be targeting pensioners so not for me.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Have we had an answer to the question of why people feel KS is 'targeting' pensioners?

Yes, the government has stopped paying £200pa to everyone over 66, but how is that 'targeting' pensioners? Isn't it better that those on low incomes are targeted for help, whatever their age, and those on higher incomes should pay their own bills?

I am no defender of means-testing workers, but in this case I can see the logic behind it, even though the uncharitable part of me objects to those who have been capable of it but who have chosen not to pay enough tax to get a full pension continuing to get a free ride and given more than those who have just above the threshold.

I dont really understand your last paragraph, how can people choose not to pay tax? Not criticising, just asking for clarification.

boat people in hotels? Who had this idea? Was it the boat people?

Buttonjugs

I don't really understand how raising the personal allowance would cost so much money. Many people who earn less than that claim UC so that would offset quite a lot of it. I've always thought it's strange that the government taxes people who can't afford to live on their wages, so they have to apply for top up benefits as a result. Raising the allowance makes sense to me, and it would reduce costs for the DWP as well.

Don't forget that it wouldn't only be those earning just above the tax threshold who would benefit. Every income taxpayer would benefit from not having the first few thousand taxed, which is why it would cost so much. So it would cost a lot, but the poorest wouldn't benefit more than anybody else. If the intention is to help the poorest, it would be better to find another way of doing it.

I haven't done the sums (so I might be very wrong) but it might be better to raise the tax threshold and increase the basic rate of tax by a couple of pence.

I dont really understand your last paragraph, how can people choose not to pay tax? Not criticising, just asking for clarification.
Sorry - my fault for not being clear.

I mean that by opting out of working, eg by staying at home when children are at school and not paying anything into the collective pot for many years if there are several children you can choose not to pay tax. There are other ways, but this is probably the most common.

When NI was paid (as it was for many years) until the youngest was 16, it meant that for every year someone was at home when the children were under 16 they get £11500 now if they get a NSP. £11.500 every year for doing nothing more than working parents did whilst also working and paying tax. NI is now only paid for 12 years, but even so, with several children that can mean decades of not contributing outside of your own household (which everyone cleans and keeps running) at the expense of those who get up early, defrost the car and go to work every morning, or however their hours work.

It's ok if you earn £50k+ for working 9-5, but if you are on minimum wage and work shifts which cost a fortune in childcare and operate unsociable hours you won't have much (if anything) more coming in than the neighbour who 'chooses' not to work and can live a sociable life whilst you look on. If your work is unfulfilling, the patronising ideas that you get more from work than the paycheque just grate. It doesn't matter if one person in your neighbour's house works - they only pay tax for themselves, not their spouse or partner.

By 'you' I mean 'anyone'.

If you earn enough to buy a small occupational pension which costs you money every month for years, and then find that you are entitled to only £200 a year that lifts you out of pension credit, and that difference brings your neighbour in £3500 a year, and then 20 years later you are supporting the person next to you in a care home because they didn't work and you did, of course you will be resentful.

This (and similar unfairnesses) is why Reform has support, and we are all at risk from fascism.

You did ask

And I know that VAT exists, but it is just not the same to go to the shops with money someone else has earned and spend it, and then claim to have 'paid tax. You haven't. You have facilitated someone else's purchase tax.

growstuff

I haven't done the sums (so I might be very wrong) but it might be better to raise the tax threshold and increase the basic rate of tax by a couple of pence.

Yes, this would make sense to me.

Low earners should be able to keep more of their income and not be disadvantaged compared to those who could but don't earn.

Those unable to earn because of illness or disability should of course be provided for by the rest of us and that should not be grudged in any way.

AMVP

Overseas aid is by no means 'silly': not only is it humanitarian, it gains "soft power' for the UK and, furthermore ..... who, or what, will step into the breach? Take a look at a map illustrating China's current influence on the African continent: it's very sobering .

Not just the African continent.
China is well entrenched in the western Balkan's.
I was alerted to this through a contact in North Macedonia.
She told me China now own the country as it’s impossible for NM to pay back the money that was loaned

We will see who is still supporting Labour if the rumours, and I stress rumours, in the press on the next budget come true
1 cuts to DLA and over 60 conditions won't be recognised for DLA
2 In 2026 the full pension will be above the tax allowance
3 Changes to cash ISA allowance to 4k per year instead of 20k in favour of stock and shares ISAs where you can lose money
4 energy cap to keep rising
5 benefits to be lowered
6 Ban on all petrol or diesel cars in 2030 - 5 years time.

Someone I read about with very little savings was £5 over the limit for pension credit. So they have to manage on over 3k pa less than those on Pension Credit who get cost of living allowance, WFA, and several other benefits. They worked all their life, paid tax and NI and ended up with over 3k less than someone who never worked or only worked part of their life or occasionally. How is that fair?
Basically if you worked all your life, had a small private pension, and saved something for retirement you get less per year and it goes to those who didn't or couldn't.

Doodledog

growstuff

I haven't done the sums (so I might be very wrong) but it might be better to raise the tax threshold and increase the basic rate of tax by a couple of pence.

Yes, this would make sense to me.

Low earners should be able to keep more of their income and not be disadvantaged compared to those who could but don't earn.

Those unable to earn because of illness or disability should of course be provided for by the rest of us and that should not be grudged in any way.

growstuff

I haven't done the sums (so I might be very wrong) but it might be better to raise the tax threshold and increase the basic rate of tax by a couple of pence.

Well, I'll go to the bottom of our stairs!!

Every time I suggest that on here I get castigated.
It's a far more honest way of taxation.