Well if Labour keep this up I think I’ll be voting for them at the next GE!

After 14 years of poor government under the Tories with their 5 Prime Ministers I can’t see how anybody would vote Tory. Farage has only ever c

…cared about himself and positioning his future with Trump and Musk - oh how that backfired. He’s done nothing for his constituents so how could anybody even think he could do anything for the whole of the UK? Now he’s even sided with Putin after inciting riots here last year with his anti ‘foreigner’ speeches (despite sucking up to US and Russian foreigners.

There won’t be a ban on all petrol and diesel cars in 2030 Sazzl, but a ban on the sale of new ones (though that’s bad enough).

Overseas aid still has a place in a humane society - but aid stop all aid to India - a nuclear country and a ‘space travel’ country. They have no love of Britain either - so stop sending them out money immediately.

Let’s charge foreign visitors to use our museums - they charge us! And make all visitors pay to use our NHS.
Stop funding the Royal Family - if there ever was a more ridiculous way to throw taxpayers money away that is it. Make their Wills public too.

I’m withholding judgement….😬

StoneofDestiny

After 14 years of poor government under the Tories with their 5 Prime Ministers I can’t see how anybody would vote Tory. Farage has only ever c

I agree and will not be voting for them again. Leaves nowhere to go except Reform! 😊

Doodledog

*I dont really understand your last paragraph, how can people choose not to pay tax? Not criticising, just asking for clarification.*
Sorry - my fault for not being clear.

I mean that by opting out of working, eg by staying at home when children are at school and not paying anything into the collective pot for many years if there are several children you can choose not to pay tax. There are other ways, but this is probably the most common.

When NI was paid (as it was for many years) until the youngest was 16, it meant that for every year someone was at home when the children were under 16 they get £11500 now if they get a NSP. £11.500 every year for doing nothing more than working parents did whilst also working and paying tax. NI is now only paid for 12 years, but even so, with several children that can mean decades of not contributing outside of your own household (which everyone cleans and keeps running) at the expense of those who get up early, defrost the car and go to work every morning, or however their hours work.

It's ok if you earn £50k+ for working 9-5, but if you are on minimum wage and work shifts which cost a fortune in childcare and operate unsociable hours you won't have much (if anything) more coming in than the neighbour who 'chooses' not to work and can live a sociable life whilst you look on. If your work is unfulfilling, the patronising ideas that you get more from work than the paycheque just grate. It doesn't matter if one person in your neighbour's house works - they only pay tax for themselves, not their spouse or partner.

By 'you' I mean 'anyone'.

If you earn enough to buy a small occupational pension which costs you money every month for years, and then find that you are entitled to only £200 a year that lifts you out of pension credit, and that difference brings your neighbour in £3500 a year, and then 20 years later you are supporting the person next to you in a care home because they didn't work and you did, of course you will be resentful.

This (and similar unfairnesses) is why Reform has support, and we are all at risk from fascism.

You did ask

I doubt you would be in the same care home as could afford better than council funded care! I had 10 years at home with three children. It would not have been financially worth working, so I was earning no salary and therefore could pay no p a y e although of course still paid tax on goods, car etc. Once back at work(with the kind help if my parents for the youngest child) I started paying PAYE, same with stamp duty, and all the other taxes payable. We are retired now but are still paying considerable amounts of tax, £17000 stamp duty on our last move plus DH private pension. Thank you for your kind explanation though! As you say I did ask! 😊

Perhaps the young should stop having the children whose taxes actually pay our pensions, and get out to work to pay these taxes Doodledog.

No need. That's exactly what's happening, isn't it. Your bitterness towards others must make life very hard. I'm truly sorry for you having to live with it.

Quite a collection on this matter!
In the end we all will have to pay for the amount labour are giving away by their form of the amount they are borrowing.
In the end all this borrowing will have to be paid back by us all.

PoliticsNerd

Perhaps the young should stop having the children whose taxes actually pay our pensions, and get out to work to pay these taxes Doodledog.

No need. That's exactly what's happening, isn't it. Your bitterness towards others must make life very hard. I'm truly sorry for you having to live with it.

Margaret Thatcher has a huge amount to answer for in her totally wrong insistence that there is no ‘government’ money, only ‘taxpayer’s money’. The resentment it engendered, and continues to engender, among ‘taxpayers’ for those they see as none contributing skivers is divisive and corrosive.

MaizieD I was one of those people guilty of believing MT’s there is no government money only tax payers money

45 years later I know better.

He’s spending on defence for the actor Zelenskyy who when asked where the missing money is couldn’t respond. He is making the U.K. the most expensive country for fuel in Europe, I could go on and on but I can see it would not make a difference.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I was one of those people guilty of believing MT’s there is no government money only tax payers money

45 years later I know better.

No blame to you, GG13, I expect I believed it, too because, like most people, I never questioned what the source of our money was. It wasn't until I started reading accounts of how national finance works that I really started investigating how it all works. And I was as disbelieving of the claims of unorthodox economists as are most people. But empirical evidence and, I hope rational, evaluation of it led me to where I am now.

Thatcher had the ability to make a an untruth seem to be unquestionably correct. 😡

Doodledog

And I know that VAT exists, but it is just not the same to go to the shops with money someone else has earned and spend it, and then claim to have 'paid tax. You haven't. You have facilitated someone else's purchase tax.

You're not viewing this the same way as I do.

We're a couple for life - two as one. I wash our landry, cook our meals, clean our home, keep our garden up, walk our dog(s), purchase our needs.

He does as much as I do, now as he slows down at work, he's not one to ever sit idle whilst I work. But for most of our marriage (I was 16 and now 80, he was 18 and now 82) he worked 60-70 hour weeks, had no time to help. I happily did everything related to our home, 4 children. I do his receipts, get the business papers ready for our accounting.

I've not earned money, I'm a sahm. However, I've facilitated his earning. Because I was at home doing/raising, I allowed his long hours at work. Everything we own and all the money we spend is half mine.

I pay VAT and other taxes with our money. I pay no income tax.

There is currently, no acceptable taxing solution for you and others who view sah-people as non-workers. I've many ideas, nobody asks.

What ideas do you have Norah?

Norah I think parents (whether it be the mother or father) who are able to stay at home to nurture the next generation are vastly under valued.

Perhaps if the 'Wages for Housework' movement had succeeded the topic of SAHMs wouldn't be so divisive.

It's odd how looking after other people's children is 'work' and is financially rewarded, but looking after your own is not pulling your financial weight.

But really, this is just derailing the thread...

Barleyfields

What ideas do you have Norah?

Thank you for asking.

Add a new type of tax band (?) for partnered people. The ability to pay income taxes and NIC as a couple, rather than singularly.

IOW, NIC could be collected couple-style in order for more people to pay for NHS. Many are unemployed, sah-parents, carers, people not in paid work but partnered. One in a partnership could pay - because they could. It means accomplishing new progressive ways, now regressive, in my opinion.

I presume your husband is getting the tax break on your non taxpaying?

"The marriage allowance is a tax break that's available to some married couples and civil partners.
It allows a non-taxpayer to transfer 10% of their personal allowance (the amount you earn without paying tax) to their spouse To be eligible, the higher-earning spouse must be a basic rate (20%) taxpayer"

sazz1

We will see who is still supporting Labour if the rumours, and I stress rumours, in the press on the next budget come true
1 cuts to DLA and over 60 conditions won't be recognised for DLA
2 In 2026 the full pension will be above the tax allowance
3 Changes to cash ISA allowance to 4k per year instead of 20k in favour of stock and shares ISAs where you can lose money
4 energy cap to keep rising
5 benefits to be lowered
6 Ban on all petrol or diesel cars in 2030 - 5 years time.

Someone I read about with very little savings was £5 over the limit for pension credit. So they have to manage on over 3k pa less than those on Pension Credit who get cost of living allowance, WFA, and several other benefits. They worked all their life, paid tax and NI and ended up with over 3k less than someone who never worked or only worked part of their life or occasionally. How is that fair?
Basically if you worked all your life, had a small private pension, and saved something for retirement you get less per year and it goes to those who didn't or couldn't.

If that is the case then it is very unfair, which is what I have been saying for years too. Do away with incentives not to work (eg ‘credits’ for those who work part-time or not at all), make minimum wage pay enough to live on, reintroduce rent caps to facilitate that, look at properly-funded childcare for all who want it and make it possible for everyone to fund their own lives if they are capable of doing so.

If people still choose not to, I don’t know how we deal with that when they get old though. Do we let them manage on no pension, bring back workhouse-style institutions or continue to fund them out of money others have earned? I don’t like any of those alternatives, so what to do?

Wyllow3

I presume your husband is getting the tax break on your non taxpaying?

"The marriage allowance is a tax break that's available to some married couples and civil partners.
It allows a non-taxpayer to transfer 10% of their personal allowance (the amount you earn without paying tax) to their spouse To be eligible, the higher-earning spouse must be a basic rate (20%) taxpayer"

Are you asking me? Or am I making this all about me?

Norah, would this new tax be double the existing rate for single people? If so, wouldn’t it only be available to those earning well above average incomes, and be a huge disincentive for both partners to work, even if both had careers and wanted to make a financial contribution to society? Not everyone wants to stay at home, and what about pension contributions etc? How could a single-earner couple on minimum wage afford it?

It also has shades of Kinde Kirche Kuche to me, as the gender pay gap would mean that it would be mainly women who would stay at home.

I don’t see how that could work Norah unless as Doodledog says the working partner is paying double income tax and NICs and paying into a private pension for the non-working partner. I can’t imagine how much they would have to be earning. At present a stay at home parent receives NI credits until the child is 12 years old. Is there a good reason why, when a child (or the youngest child) reaches that age, the stay at home parent should not be working at least part time outside the home, earning their own money, paying NICs and tax?

Doodledog

*Norah*, would this new tax be double the existing rate for single people? If so, wouldn’t it only be available to those earning well above average incomes, and be a huge disincentive for both partners to work, even if both had careers and wanted to make a financial contribution to society? Not everyone wants to stay at home, and what about pension contributions etc? How could a single-earner couple on minimum wage afford it?

It also has shades of Kinde Kirche Kuche to me, as the gender pay gap would mean that it would be mainly women who would stay at home.

I don't have all the answers, it's an idea.

We've lived, together, not in the UK, for TKR and back procedures. One of us working, the other obviously not working - convalescent.

I noted how monies were withheld, for taxes, NHC (they call it medicare payments), state pension (social security). When paying they have a way to pay "single", "head of home" or "married filing jointly".

If one works, money is withheld. As I recall there were special forms for nonresidents. We receive no money from this system of withholdings (must work 40 quarters to receive at age 62).

Kinde Kirche Kuche? Sah-persons? Not in my opinion.