19 year old killed family and planned a school shooting

Sorry that link didn't work
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce342g0xz15o

I noticed this in the news and wondered why it hadn't come up on GN. Yet again its "At a press conference he added that "comprehensive inquiries demonstrate that this was a single perpetrator acting in isolation"

Yes, today is the first time I’ve read about these awful murders. Another very disturbed young man, whose siblings and family seem like most of us…

I really don't know what is causing these young men to become so angry and violent, is it access to the dark web on the internet, violent computer games, or a lack of mental health services for young adults??
But whatever it is I think more should be invested in finding out.

Peter Hitchen in the Mail on Sunday, not a man I share many opinions with, has been pursuing a relentless campaign against the casual way marijuana use in this country is treated by police and authorities.

He has noted that many of these suddenly violent young men are pleasant happy children until they reach about 13/14, and then they change, He puts this down to their first experience with cannabis at that age.

The cannabis being marketed now is much stronger than that doing the rounds in the 1960s-80s and is known to have serious mental affects on some users.

There is no evidence that these young men are addicted or habitual users, but Hitchen's thinks that for some of them, just smoking canabis once or twice is enough, in those early years of adolescence to cause pyschosis or other damage to the brain that leads them to turn from the ordinary happy boys to these violent angry youths feeding their pyschosis with websites promoting violence and extremism.

Th question of drug use rarely comes up with these boys because the brief use of cannabis that led to the change in their minds, was several years before they committed any atrocity and either not known or just not seen as contributory to an event taking place some years later. But it could be that this early use, in some boys, causes major change in how their brains work.

An interesting point MOnica. I rarely if ever agree with Hutchins but share his concerns about the impact of cannabis, especially on developing brains.
I’ve seen no evidence of cannabis use in this young man or the Southport murderer. That doesn’t mean it isn’t there of course, but both of them seem to have been classic ‘loners’ living on the internet.

I’m opposed to legalising drug use. I believe cannabis to be dangerous, especially to developing brains. It’s physical risks also need to be well publicised for adults, irregular heart beats, memory problems are not minor issues

Babs03

I really don't know what is causing these young men to become so angry and violent, is it access to the dark web on the internet, violent computer games, or a lack of mental health services for young adults??
But whatever it is I think more should be invested in finding out.

I definitely think the violent video games played constantly normalises and desensitises. And the Andrew Tates of this world? I think w'd have been told if there was a known MH history.

Cannabis is treated very casually these days and I find that worrying, especially the effect strong versions could have on developing brains.
It worries me that many people are driving under the influence of drugs too. There was a serious accident near here recently, a pedestrian badly injured early in the morning. The young driver was under the influence of drugs even at that time of day.

This is yet another horrendous incident and there is as yet no report that the perpetrator took drugs.

I just posted about another casual attack by two children on an elderly man who subsequently died as a result.

I really don't know what is causing these young men to become so angry and violent, is it access to the dark web on the internet, violent computer games, or a lack of mental health services for young adults??
But whatever it is I think more should be invested in finding out.
I agree Babs03

I agree. Real in depth studies enough to try and identify what has made a young man end up in this situation. (I dont know if they have done this in the USA re school shootings?)

We have Prevent but I wonder if it is effective enough (it seems not?)

Iam64

An interesting point MOnica. I rarely if ever agree with Hutchins but share his concerns about the impact of cannabis, especially on developing brains.
I’ve seen no evidence of cannabis use in this young man or the Southport murderer. That doesn’t mean it isn’t there of course, but both of them seem to have been classic ‘loners’ living on the internet.

I’m opposed to legalising drug use. I believe cannabis to be dangerous, especially to developing brains. It’s physical risks also need to be well publicised for adults, irregular heart beats, memory problems are not minor issues

I think the point peter Hitchen was making is that these boys may have only smoked one or two spliffs when they were 12-14, but that it was enough to damage their brains and turn them into the violent bedroom based loners they become. It doesn't occur to anyone that cannabis may be behind the transformation because it was 5 or 6 years before the violent event, and the person concerned had no drug habit around the time they committed violence.

JaneJudge

We have Prevent but I wonder if it is effective enough (it seems not?)

I might be wrong but I think prevent is only for those who might be in danger of getting in touch with terrorist groups?

Prevent ‘was”set up to respond to the threat posed by
those susceptible to the influence of terrorist groups.

But it has it seems only just occurred to security services that there are different types of terrorist, ie not aligned to any particular religious ideology. It has proved unfit for purpose in these cases.

These men/boys may have lurked on the edges of society before but the internet has been a god-send (no pun intended) they feel listened to and emboldened so any sullen, inadequate, adolescent misfit with a chip on their shoulder can interact with others of similar persuasion to their hearts content, unchallenged in those echo chambers.

And very very much agree about the cannabis. This is not the sixties “peace and love man” no! this modern stuff is powerful and the younger the brain the worse the risk of damage.

I have “this very night” experienced an example of the effect of “only a spliff” on a young neighbour, the uncontrolled illogical ranting, the paranoia, the manic pacing up and down the street like a caged animal, not to mention the billowing clouds of smoke that trail behind and drift into our flat. Police have been called.

This stuff is everywhere and it is not harmless. It is ruining lives and breaking up families.

Babs03

I really don't know what is causing these young men to become so angry and violent, is it access to the dark web on the internet, violent computer games, or a lack of mental health services for young adults??
But whatever it is I think more should be invested in finding out.

It was a computer game that made him write a message that he would rearrange his sister's face as she had made a wrong decision while playing it with him.
Thank goodness the police stopped him before he got to the school.
I wonder how many more like him are out there?

JaneJudge

We have Prevent but I wonder if it is effective enough (it seems not?)

Prevent seem blinkered on judging a troubled youngster's behaviour by using terrorism as a yardstick.
If they show no signs of it then they are allowed to roam freely in the community and we have seen the devastating results that can have.
No matter what age they are these young boys, known to so many agencies and the Police, need to be in a secure unit under medication, for the safety of others.

Sarnia

JaneJudge

We have Prevent but I wonder if it is effective enough (it seems not?)

Prevent seem blinkered on judging a troubled youngster's behaviour by using terrorism as a yardstick.
If they show no signs of it then they are allowed to roam freely in the community and we have seen the devastating results that can have.
No matter what age they are these young boys, known to so many agencies and the Police, need to be in a secure unit under medication, for the safety of others.

The purpose of Prevent is to stop youngsters being drawn into supporting violent extremist political groups. This includes girls as well as boys.

The problem is Sarnia that many of these boys do not come from troubled backgrounds and are not known to any of the agencies, have no history of violence. but suddenly erupt into acts of savagery.

What we are seeing with these boys is something very different, some change in adolescence that sees them retreating to their bedrooms and disappesring into a dystopian world of violence and horror, thanks to a small device on their bedside table. As school they become loners.

Many children who go through a period of retreat into themselves in adolescence, are not obsessed with violence and come out the other end. I can remember a period of my adolscence when i spent an awful lot of time in my bedroom, lying on my bed and just thinking.

I think dealing with this starts in the home with parents exercising much more supervision over what their children are looking at on screen. This is something children need to grow up with, accepting without thinking, for example, that generally computers and phones live downstairs. I have seen my grandchildren growing up in a home where access to screens was limited in younger years, and all the computers were in the living room. less easy now with so many handheld devices, but if parents are actively involved from the start it is easier to see what is happening in teenage years.

Then teachers need to be alert to children that are not mixing with other children, are happier in their own company, there should be some way of picking them up through the pastoral system. The majority will have no inclination to violence at all, some will have other problems, but it would offer an opportunity to situations where children are disapparing down violent rabbit holds.

The problem is that, although more frequent, only one in a million children is going to behave like this - and we have had incidents like this in the past: Dunblane and Hungerford - when someone disaffected with the world goes out to get even with it.

Thanks MOnica for reminding posters of the remit Prevent was given, a narrow one but clear. If we want its remit widened, there are financial as well as structural implications

Generally down to lack of parental responsibility.

Babs03

I really don't know what is causing these young men to become so angry and violent, is it access to the dark web on the internet, violent computer games, or a lack of mental health services for young adults??
But whatever it is I think more should be invested in finding out.

They are MH cases. There is something that could be done but MH has been under funded for at least 20 years getting worse and worse.It’s a national disgrace.

eazybee

Generally down to lack of parental responsibility.

agreed, soft lazy parenting and quite often the absence of a role- model father. Babies and toddlers plonked in front of screens rather than having parental interaction when they learn about right and wrong. Mental health is blamed for the gaps left by bad parenting, including giving children good home-cooked meals, and eating as a family around a table

Simply not true Karmalady
Too much tv and not sitting round a table for meals is laughable.
MH is blamed as it’s the real reason.

Oreo 👍🏻

Oreo

Simply not true Karmalady
Too much tv and not sitting round a table for meals is laughable.
MH is blamed as it’s the real reason.

MH problems are generally caused by external factors like those listed by eazybee and karmalady

The problems these young men suffer from have been connected to cannabis use in early adolscent. Not addiction or regular use, but that some malleable and plastic young minds can react severely to even a few spliffs and can be permanently damaged even though the youngster does not go on to be a regular user. This will certainly cause MH problems.

I don’t think prevent is exercised properly though
I think you can all do the training online btw on the gov.uk website
I’m so disillusioned by everything