Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

Wyllow3

ronib

As my husband pointed out, you can’t mine for rare metals in a war zone. You have to have peace first. Perhaps Trump really can’t see the point of an extended war in Ukraine. Concessions will have to be made so why not sooner than later?

Concessions are made in an agreement which also outlines the quid pro quo in this case terms and conditions of a peace deal.

You don't make the concession and hope for the best.

I really take on board the language issue. If serious enough issues were on the table, as they clearly were, as Trump and Vance has not yet got what they wanted, there should have been a translator present.

And Trumps whole attitude to me is summed upon that one sentence at the end. Lives are being torn apart in Ukraine and Trumps comments is

"it will make great TV"

Your husband sounds like a power of reason ronib 😏

Retroladywriting

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I have been pondering over this (confined to barracks) and I have come to the conclusion that this was totally stage managed by Trump, Vance and their sycophantic press corps.

That may well be true. What I don’t understand if it was, was how they allowed it to go so badly in terms of PR. Who would willingly behave like an ignorant boor in front of the world, it could have been managed so much better from Trump and Vance’s perspective?

Perhaps because Trump and his cohorts probably think that their supporters like that bombastic, bullying attitude. In his deluded mind, he might think that he comes over as a strong, determined President who is going to MAGA.

You’d have thought they would have had a care as to how the rest of the world would perceive their behaviour too though, wouldn’t you? Surely only the most diehard supporters would have supported the approach they took, and they have ended up alienating more people, including Americans, than was necessary by behaving like that?

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I have been pondering over this (confined to barracks) and I have come to the conclusion that this was totally stage managed by Trump, Vance and their sycophantic press corps.

That may well be true. What I don’t understand if it was, was how they allowed it to go so badly in terms of PR. Who would willingly behave like an ignorant boor in front of the world, it could have been managed so much better from Trump and Vance’s perspective?

Perhaps because Trump and his cohorts probably think that their supporters like that bombastic, bullying attitude. In his deluded mind, he might think that he comes over as a strong, determined President who is going to MAGA.

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I have been pondering over this (confined to barracks) and I have come to the conclusion that this was totally stage managed by Trump, Vance and their sycophantic press corps.

Absolutely agree with you.

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I have been pondering over this (confined to barracks) and I have come to the conclusion that this was totally stage managed by Trump, Vance and their sycophantic press corps.

That may well be true. What I don’t understand if it was, was how they allowed it to go so badly in terms of PR. Who would willingly behave like an ignorant boor in front of the world, it could have been managed so much better from Trump and Vance’s perspective?

Agreed.

”I have a solution. Russia stops invading other countries”

Hear, hear imaround👏👏👏

This war could stop right now, this minute… if Russia stopped bombing Ukraine!

We have quite a few Ukrainian refugees locally, they are all women and children, there are no men. The family I know quite well are a grandmother, daughter and son who is now 8. The grandmother got work with a local herb farmer, it's tough work that locals don't want to do. The daughter got work cleaning and doing ironing for people, she's a radiographer skilled in work with cancer patients but her qualifications aren't recognised here. She desperately wants to go home but she wants to keep her son safe. Her husband is a hospital technician who keeps theatre equipment serviced and working correctly and he's based in hospitals near to the war zone, she's in daily contact with him. those hospitals are often bombed by the Russians!

Churchview

Woodenspoon posted "We have hundreds of Ukrainians living in the UK. Using our healthcare and resources. What are we gaining?

This is an interesting question. Lots of information here. migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/ukrainian-migration-to-the-uk/

About 70% if Ukrainian adults in the UK are working and presumably paying tax here. The percentage of Ukrainians in work is increasing rapidly all the time. (the UK population rate is 78%.

Over 50% of Ukrainian adults here are paying for their own accommodation and many have bought property.

The Ukranians who came to our town under the Sponsorship scheme have pretty much set themself up here in homes and jobs. Our allotment site is about 10% Ukrainians now. Next week one young woman is opening her own business in our high street.

I live in an area with an aging population and the new blood has been great for our town.

How is it possible for Ukrainians to buy property here after just a couple of years?

In Dublin they have loads of Ukrainians including many War dodging men. the Ukraine is a very corrupt country and you can get anything, including a way out if you pay.

A young Ukrainian woman was appealing for loads of household stuff. My husband and I dropped her off a nearly new double mattress, clothes horse, pots and pans, cutlery, towels, bedding. I could see a man was in the house and asked if he could help with lifting the mattress which he did and he appeared fit and healthy but I did wonder why he was not fighting for his country.

Ukraine was promised security if it gave up it's nuclear weapons. those promises came from the US, Russia, UK and France and others, they have been completely let down. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and nothing was done, those who promised Ukraine security looked the other way so Russia invaded again to take more territory. Why on earth would Zelensky (or anyone with half a brain ) trust Russia not to invade again to take more territory unless there is a powerful reason not to. The US could secure peace by providing a guarantee of air cover with Europe having a ground force but Trump is throwing America's strong ties with Europe into the dustbin. This is not just about money it's about a complete change in US politics and we have no idea where it might lead.

Wyllow3 I have been pondering over this (confined to barracks) and I have come to the conclusion that this was totally stage managed by Trump, Vance and their sycophantic press corps.

ronib

As my husband pointed out, you can’t mine for rare metals in a war zone. You have to have peace first. Perhaps Trump really can’t see the point of an extended war in Ukraine. Concessions will have to be made so why not sooner than later?

Concessions are made in an agreement which also outlines the quid pro quo in this case terms and conditions of a peace deal.

You don't make the concession and hope for the best.

I really take on board the language issue. If serious enough issues were on the table, as they clearly were, as Trump and Vance has not yet got what they wanted, there should have been a translator present.

And Trumps whole attitude to me is summed upon that one sentence at the end. Lives are being torn apart in Ukraine and Trumps comments is

"it will make great TV"

I know a lovely Ukrainian lady, she has worked and still is working here. Her husband and eldest son stayed behind to fight.

imaround

I have a solution. Russia stops invading other countries.

I am agahst at posters literally blaming Zelinsky for this war and for what happened yesterday. It boggles my mind. It is definitely a case study in propaganda.

Agree, agree, agree. Thank you.

Woodenspoon posted "We have hundreds of Ukrainians living in the UK. Using our healthcare and resources. What are we gaining?

This is an interesting question. Lots of information here. migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/ukrainian-migration-to-the-uk/

About 70% if Ukrainian adults in the UK are working and presumably paying tax here. The percentage of Ukrainians in work is increasing rapidly all the time. (the UK population rate is 78%.

Over 50% of Ukrainian adults here are paying for their own accommodation and many have bought property.

The Ukranians who came to our town under the Sponsorship scheme have pretty much set themself up here in homes and jobs. Our allotment site is about 10% Ukrainians now. Next week one young woman is opening her own business in our high street.

I live in an area with an aging population and the new blood has been great for our town.

A majority of people in the US admire Zelensky and despise TRump and Vance.

Someone upthread wondered what the Ukrainian people think

Here's a vox pop:

news.sky.com/story/what-ukrainians-think-of-row-between-volodymyr-zelenskyy-and-donald-trump-13319332

Allira

They were the Soviet Union's nuclear arms, left there when Russia left.

The Soviet Union was undoubtedly controlled from Russia, but Russia is not the Soviet Union, so had no more entitlement to the weapons than did Ukraine, who was also part of the Soviet Union.

I don't know if your implication was that because they were USSR weapons Russia had a say over them once the USSR was dissolved. It doesn't seem like a correct conclusion to me.

ronib

Everything which has happened so far has been planned in advance I guess. I can remember Trump being quite emphatic a few months ago that America wants the war in Ukraine to stop.
Perhaps the message just wasn’t clear enough to Zelensky and the pretty outlandish interview was a last ditch attempt to drum it home. It’s entirely human not to want to listen to bad news so Zelensky is having a very difficult time fully understanding the implications of Trump’s second term.

You seem so certain that America wants the war to stop.

This doesn't tally with Trump who, earlier this week, said that Ukraine would get "the right to fight on" in return for access to its minerals and suggested the US would continue to supply equipment and ammunition.

He doesn't want peace - he wants his cut of the spoils of war.

fancythat

woodenspoon

We're now hearing from Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte, who tells the BBC he has spoken with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky twice following the White House meeting.
He says he is "not at liberty to say what was discussed" but shares that he told Zelensky "we have to respect" what Trump has done for Ukraine so far.
Speaking to the BBC, he says Zelensky must "find a way" to restore his relationship with his US counterpart Donald Trump after the two clashed in the White House.
He adds that during Trump's first administration - from 2017 to 2020 - the US approved the sale of the Javelin anti-tank missile system which enabled Ukraine to "fight back" when Russia launched its full-scale invasion in 2022.
"We really have to give Trump credit," Rutte adds.

Just on bbc news website.

Would I be right in thinking in that case, that that sounds like Nato isnt intending to help Zelensky any time soon?

NATO can’t. Ukraine isn’t a member

imaround

I have a solution. Russia stops invading other countries.

I am agahst at posters literally blaming Zelinsky for this war and for what happened yesterday. It boggles my mind. It is definitely a case study in propaganda.

its crazy isn't it? I think Trump, much like Farage & similar, likes to say outrageous things so he can dominate the headlines. There is no truth in the 'Ukraine's fault' argument obviously so like Farage etc they say the most outrageous things to grab the headlines, it does get attention, otherwise Farage would be a nonentity, it works cos some people will believe them not cos its true. These people are showmen not politicians

woodenspoon

We're now hearing from Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte, who tells the BBC he has spoken with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky twice following the White House meeting.
He says he is "not at liberty to say what was discussed" but shares that he told Zelensky "we have to respect" what Trump has done for Ukraine so far.
Speaking to the BBC, he says Zelensky must "find a way" to restore his relationship with his US counterpart Donald Trump after the two clashed in the White House.
He adds that during Trump's first administration - from 2017 to 2020 - the US approved the sale of the Javelin anti-tank missile system which enabled Ukraine to "fight back" when Russia launched its full-scale invasion in 2022.
"We really have to give Trump credit," Rutte adds.

Just on bbc news website.

Would I be right in thinking in that case, that that sounds like Nato isnt intending to help Zelensky any time soon?

I have a solution. Russia stops invading other countries.

I am agahst at posters literally blaming Zelinsky for this war and for what happened yesterday. It boggles my mind. It is definitely a case study in propaganda.

Madgran77

*If Trump had been a statesman he would have cut Vance off, smoothed things with Zelenskyy, and the whole thing would be done*

I agree about the nuance of language and a statesman would allow for that and would have done as you say.

Re UN saying must give Trump credit ...fine but as above Trump needs to make allowance for language; to treat others with the respect that he and his Vice President are demanding.

I quite agree Trump is not a statesman but a showman who will have loved being headline news again.
I hope he gets deposed asap, its not that long ago that Boris seemed invincible but in the end he couldn't stop being Boris and eventually the party realised he was more of a liability than an asset. Hopefully similar will happen to Trump and his sidekicks.
Trump etc behaved disgracefully

Mamie what is your solution?