Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

How is asking someone what they stand for a personal attack?

PoliticsNerd

woodenspoon

Wyllow3

But woodenspoon, Trump had no peace deal to offer What's the point in creating a crisis point with no substance?

The crisis point is getting Europe to pay up on defence and not rely on the US to bankroll it. Money talks with Trump, it’s why he’s a successful business man. Money, deals, it’s what he knows. Now, he’s achieved that. They’ve got to pay up or shut up.

None of your description of Trump excuses his behaviour. You are excusing a convicted criminal who is destroying the democracy of his country.

I that what you stand for?

You’re making a personal attack on me which is against Gransnet rules I believe. And since you don’t know me as an individual you cannot possibly know what I stand for or otherwise.

JenniferEccles

Zelensky was always going to be up against it, especially when I heard that he had gone to the US last October to campaign for Biden.

I do wonder though how much thought went into just how he was going to conduct himself with Trump.
There was so much talk from Trump and Vance about a lack of respect from Zelensky.

No: the Republicans have claimed that he campaigned for Biden on the basis of one visit to a munitions plant, in order to bolster their claims of Zelensky as hostile

www.newsweek.com/volodymyr-zelensky-jd-vance-campaign-kamala-harris-2024-election-2038060

Trump/Vance have as described above consistently undermined Zelensky in every way possible.

"I do wonder though how much thought went into just how he was going to conduct himself with Trump". good question.

I think he expected a modicum of reasonable respect not a full on playground attack.

ronib

Maybe it’s just plain rude to keep asking for money? nanna8

He hasn't really been given money though has he.
He has been given old equipment, which America is wanting to "recoup" - having already replaced it internally from its own factories.

Not saying that old equipment/weaponry isn't useful - just that presumably the US would have soon had to "write it off".

I think it is pretty clear that Trumps plan is identical as Putins plan in the short/medium term.

woodenspoon

Wyllow3

But woodenspoon, Trump had no peace deal to offer What's the point in creating a crisis point with no substance?

The crisis point is getting Europe to pay up on defence and not rely on the US to bankroll it. Money talks with Trump, it’s why he’s a successful business man. Money, deals, it’s what he knows. Now, he’s achieved that. They’ve got to pay up or shut up.

None of your description of Trump excuses his behaviour. You are excusing a convicted criminal who is destroying the democracy of his country.

I that what you stand for?

Wyllow3

But woodenspoon, Trump had no peace deal to offer What's the point in creating a crisis point with no substance?

The crisis point is getting Europe to pay up on defence and not rely on the US to bankroll it. Money talks with Trump, it’s why he’s a successful business man. Money, deals, it’s what he knows. Now, he’s achieved that. They’ve got to pay up or shut up.

JenniferEccles

Zelensky was always going to be up against it, especially when I heard that he had gone to the US last October to campaign for Biden.

I do wonder though how much thought went into just how he was going to conduct himself with Trump.
There was so much talk from Trump and Vance about a lack of respect from Zelensky.

There was so much talk from Trump and Vance about a lack of respect from Zelensky.

Priceless! A convicted criminal accuses the leader of another country fighting for its very existence of a lack of respect.

Zelensky was always going to be up against it, especially when I heard that he had gone to the US last October to campaign for Biden.

I do wonder though how much thought went into just how he was going to conduct himself with Trump.
There was so much talk from Trump and Vance about a lack of respect from Zelensky.

So what's worth fighting and possibly dying for? Ronib If your neighbour knocks on the door and says he's going to move his fence so that he can takeover your drive. Would you just offer to help him move the fence? If he was waving a gun in your face, you probably would but you'd hopefully have law and some ability to support that law ie the police on your side. Ukraine doesn't have these benefits because Russia's Putin does not follow international laws and would just blow your head off!

I don't think anyone wants war, that is why the alliance between Europe and the US has helped to keep peace. The US has been a willing player in this, with military bases all over the world. It's important to remember that these bases also give the US dominance and the ability to protect their interests. It's dominance also means that it's allies generally buy US weapons, boosting their arms industry creating profit and employment. Trump's description of "giving arms to Ukraine" is actually far from truthful but that's never stopped Trump from telling the story he wants to tell.

Yes, the world is a dangerous place, especially now so and made even more dangerous by Trump. Yes, Europe needs to spend more money on it's defence, that's a given. Yes, the war in Ukraine has gone on too long but no to making any deal with Russia that does not guarantee it's future security because if that happens Russia will regroup, rearm and when it's feeling stronger will march back over the border to take more of Ukraine's territory.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Trump sees the Ukraine situation through the lens of cold hard reality. His words may feel harsh to the ears of sycophants who have been massaging Zelensky's ego for selfies and back pats over the last three years, but Trump's words are not false.

Supporting Ukraine in its defence of its country against Russia was partly through self-interest too.

Most countries in Europe would fear the prospect of another Soviet Union matching across Europe to dominate and control as they did after WW2.
Those who live near the borders of Russia and Ukraine who threw off the yoke of the Soviets not that many years ago must be nervous of it happening again.

Susiewong65

mum2three

I thoroughly enjoyed the scene. Trump speaks his mind...no pussyfooting about with this man. How refreshing after Biden and Obama....sucking up and appeasing.

That probably says more about you than we wish to know, disgusting!

Heavens above. Are you American? Are you a red neck? Just can’t believe that the lovely Americans I have met and know would condone your disgusting view of what happened in the Oval Office.

woodenspoon

“Cossy
woodenspoon
They may not have etiquette and all the rest of it but nobody can deny they get things done. I wish we could say the same in the UK.
What have they “got done”?
They’ve created action Cossy. It may not be to your liking of course, but no can deny they’ve brought matters to a head. Unless of course people are happy for this war to continue for years and years?

They might be Brash, a lack of etiquette as you say but where does all those supposed attributes get you? Nowhere in my view. Just a continuation of this war, more meetings going round in circles and for what?

Brash, ill mannered, lack of diplomacy Trump has brought it to a head.“

At what cost?

Russia are still attacking Ukraine. Ukraine has minerals Trump wants.

You think Zelensky should just roll over and give into Trump and Putin’s demands?

The only thing you’ve said, that I agree with, is peace and ceasefire is the way forward, but it should be on Ukraine’s terms, not USA and certainly not Russia.

54-57% approval rating in his own country

That’s not a great approval rating is it.
75 - 80% yes.

But woodenspoon, Trump had no peace deal to offer What's the point in creating a crisis point with no substance?

54-57% approval rating in his own country Kandinsky

In that deal the USA guaranteed Ukraine's security.
Ukraine has EVERY RIGHT to ask the USA for help now.
Yes, I agree.
The agreement to transfer the weapons was made between Russia, USA and Ukraine. Russia violated that Trwaty and now the USA is letting down Ukraine.

And what of Russia no live interviews with them.

I do wonder why?

Cossy

Maremia

How many of you know that Ukraine once had nuclear weapons on its soil?
How many of you know about the deal made between the USA and Russia, the 1990's, to persuade Ukraine to get rid of those weapons, for the sake of world peace.
In that deal the USA guaranteed Ukraine's security.
Ukraine has EVERY RIGHT to ask the USA for help now.

👏👏👏👏👏

And WHY did Ukraine have nuclear weapons on its soil?

Because they dated from when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union! The weapons were transferred back to Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Chernobyl is also in Ukraine of course- that disaster occurred when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.

Your post was misleading.

Cossy

woodenspoon

They may not have etiquette and all the rest of it but nobody can deny they get things done. I wish we could say the same in the UK.

What have they “got done”?

They’ve created action Cossy. It may not be to your liking of course, but no can deny they’ve brought matters to a head. Unless of course people are happy for this war to continue for years and years?

They might be Brash, a lack of etiquette as you say but where does all those supposed attributes get you? Nowhere in my view. Just a continuation of this war, more meetings going round in circles and for what?

Brash, ill mannered, lack of diplomacy Trump has brought it to a head.

Not menaing you personally have to answer all of that.

Maremia

How many of you know that Ukraine once had nuclear weapons on its soil?
How many of you know about the deal made between the USA and Russia, the 1990's, to persuade Ukraine to get rid of those weapons, for the sake of world peace.
In that deal the USA guaranteed Ukraine's security.
Ukraine has EVERY RIGHT to ask the USA for help now.

Are these types of deals written?

Do they have to be abided by?

What happens when leaders change, as they do?

And something I have not picked up on. If Zelensky did sign away minerals, he isnt necessarily getting US military help. Is he?

NotSpaghetti

^When Trump commands go and work out your peace, that is an honourable demand.^

Really?

NotSpaghetti yes in my book. It’s better than agreeing to kill another million young people.

It was planned by Trump and Vance in advance. Was Vance present at the Macron and Starmer interviews? If so he didn’t say much. And yes it began with Trump’s rude comments on Zelensky’s dress. BUT it didn’t work. I wish people wouldn’t say that Zelensky was humiliated because he was not. He stood his ground when he could get a word in edgeways, which wasn’t often. In what way was he disrespectful to America??

The opprobrium of the West will mean nothing to Trump who is only interested in himself, but Vance is cleverer albeit just as much of a bully. He may try to cool things down

Otherwise I fear Parsley is right and am as afraid as everyone else tho I think it will be some time before Putin moves against anyone else.

When Trump commands go and work out your peace, that is an honourable demand.

Really?