Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

escaped

I'm glad you say this, NotSpaghetti, as I tendvto agree about the difficulty of translation.
I don't think Zelensky expected to be ambushed as he was, otherwise he might have had a translator with him. Not because his English is poor by any means, but because those nuances are full of pit-falls.
One example was, when DT said, " I hold all the cards here," meaning "I'm in charge, I'm make the decisions here", Zelensky replied, "I am not playing with cards". The answer was a bit simplistic for what was needed, and as you suggest, due to his command of the language, unfortunately lacked the punch needed to reply to the bullies.

But, yes, it was totally unacceptable and rude of Trump, Vance, and Co to behave like that.

Such a shame, in retrospect, that President Zelensky didn't have a translator with him.

He wouldn't have cut such an isolated figure in the meeting and, I think, the intended volley of the barbs of DT and JV would have lost a lot of their impact if we'd had to wait in silence while the translations took place.

Oh don’t worry Z definitely got the message.

Babs03

I don’t think Putin needs anything on Trump, as a leader Trump sees himself as strong arming any possible dissent or those he sees as opposing him abroad, this has been clearly demonstrated with Zelenskyy, is not just the way of a bully but the way of a dictator, so of course he admires Putin and sees himself as very similar. He admires Netanyahu for possessing the same brutal attributes.
We need to exit our now ‘not so special’ relationship with the US if we want to avoid being dragged into Trumps fascist orbit.
Europe has to band together now.

You articulated my thoughts for me Babs03!

If only Trump were capable of speaking in an intelligent, thoughtful and considered way.

I fear he may reject out of hand any plan that he hasn’t come up with, especially if there’s nothing in it for him. He can cut all aid to Ukraine tomorrow so there has to be something of more value to him than just ceasing to spend money on Ukraine.

Agree totally NotSpaghetti, escaped and ixion. A need for translation was vital and would have slowed things down to allow understanding and good response if indeed tempers had flared in the first place.

Elegran Trump was arrogant with PZ because he had an audience to play up to. The meeting should have been held in private for sure- Trump is furious because money for the war PZ can’t account for.

ronib

Oh don’t worry Z definitely got the message.

As did Trump.

Who knows Claremont 🤷‍♀️

I know not everyone likes the Marsh family but this one hits nail on head with the bullying

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvT3aQjLxdE

”He can cut all aid to Ukraine tomorrow so there has to be something of more value to him than just ceasing to spend money on Ukraine”

Don’t forget Ukraine’s rare earth minerals. Trump’s still going to want to get his hands on them.

If he turns his back on Ukraine completely and let’s Europe go it alone, the USA can wave goodbye to the minerals👋

fancythat, so sorry you have had to wait so many pages for a response, but this thread has just moved so fast.
The Trilateral Statement was signed in Moscow, in January 1994, by Yeltsin, Clinton and Kravechuk.
Fried, Trump sees the Ukraine situation through the lens of cold, hard greed.
His main take from the failure of the meeting, which was his own fault, is that he has lost the rich, rare minerals, and his Nobel Peace prize. That is the entire depth of his compassion and humanity.
Zelenskyy was supposed to sign away the only Ace he had, the minerals, with no concrete security proposals,
'Oh, we'll deal with that later. I trust Putin.'
Seriously????????

Wyllow3

I know not everyone likes the Marsh family but this one hits nail on head with the bullying

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvT3aQjLxdE

Thank you.

The interview certainly made uncomfortable viewing but Zelensky has to decide what to do next.

As I see it Donald Trump is the only leader with any chance of bringing this war to a swift end.
As far as I know he is the only Western leader with any sort of negotiating relationship with Putin, and although he has put a rocket under European leaders in the short time he’s been in office, I’m not sure any of them could pull off a peace deal.

What’s the alternative to Trump’s offer?
The war drags on and on with European countries continuing to pay billions to keep it going, along with the heavy loss of life on both sides.
Countries will soon start to have second thoughts especially if it drags on for years, which could happen.

Yes obviously Trump and Putin too of course will be getting a lot out of the deal with Ukraine’s rare minerals being a big part, but what price peace?

It might not work of course but isn’t it worth trying?

I've warmed to the Marsh family!

The Marsh family are not helping.

JenniferEccles

The interview certainly made uncomfortable viewing but Zelensky has to decide what to do next.

As I see it Donald Trump is the only leader with any chance of bringing this war to a swift end.
As far as I know he is the only Western leader with any sort of negotiating relationship with Putin, and although he has put a rocket under European leaders in the short time he’s been in office, I’m not sure any of them could pull off a peace deal.

What’s the alternative to Trump’s offer?
The war drags on and on with European countries continuing to pay billions to keep it going, along with the heavy loss of life on both sides.
Countries will soon start to have second thoughts especially if it drags on for years, which could happen.

Yes obviously Trump and Putin too of course will be getting a lot out of the deal with Ukraine’s rare minerals being a big part, but what price peace?

It might not work of course but isn’t it worth trying?

This isn’t a “peace” deal though, in reality it’s a “mineral” deal for the US and a “land” deal for Putin.

What are the Ykraine gaining from this deal? Zero, yet Russia were the aggressors

Ooops Ukraine Fat fingers

”What’s the alternative to Trump’s offer?”

JenniferEccles so what exactly is Trump’s offer?

JenniferEccles

The interview certainly made uncomfortable viewing but Zelensky has to decide what to do next.

As I see it Donald Trump is the only leader with any chance of bringing this war to a swift end.
As far as I know he is the only Western leader with any sort of negotiating relationship with Putin, and although he has put a rocket under European leaders in the short time he’s been in office, I’m not sure any of them could pull off a peace deal.

What’s the alternative to Trump’s offer?
The war drags on and on with European countries continuing to pay billions to keep it going, along with the heavy loss of life on both sides.
Countries will soon start to have second thoughts especially if it drags on for years, which could happen.

Yes obviously Trump and Putin too of course will be getting a lot out of the deal with Ukraine’s rare minerals being a big part, but what price peace?

It might not work of course but isn’t it worth trying?

So is ok for Zelenskyy to concede land to Putin, mineral rich land, for Putin and Trump to benefit from, and hand a victory to the aggressor in all of this whose expansionist intentions will be satisfied.
How do you suppose it would have felt if in WW2 we had gifted Poland to Hitler in order to stop the war and save all the lives lost?
Is is never just about ‘ending’ a war, it is what happens next that matters.

I would be very happy to see a proper negotiated peace not Trump's mineral deal with a promise that's not even written on paper. However, one thing to consider is that although Ukraine will find it hard to continue without the support of the US, Russia is also finding it hard and their rate of progress is very slow. This gives Europe an opportunity to organise and without the US trying to cut a deal it might be easier to agree something with Russia that gives them a win and Ukraine more security. Nothing is guaranteed but Trump's deal is a complete non starter.

My thoughts are turning to, what is going to stop Putin?

The Marsh family are simply saying how it was. I'm not sure why they should be expected to " help" the aggressor.
I have said before that I fear that now Mr Putin has a buddy in the White House, he'll expect to be handed Ukraine on a platter.
Then, after a period of recovery/ pillage, he'll find his map again and think hmm...where next?
What price Latvia- or Finland ..?or?

Latvia and Finland are both in NATO, Moldova and most of the Baltic states are not. the US may of course decide to leave Nato, which would weaken it considerably but I still think if the European countries had the time to stengthen their defences they could still defeat a country like Russia. Interesting to see Egypt has been invited to Starmer's meeting, although not in Nato they are allied to it and they hate Russia.

I know it’s not ideal but what’s the alternative?

Barleyfields

If only Trump were capable of speaking in an intelligent, thoughtful and considered way.

I fear he may reject out of hand any plan that he hasn’t come up with, especially if there’s nothing in it for him. He can cut all aid to Ukraine tomorrow so there has to be something of more value to him than just ceasing to spend money on Ukraine.

I fear he may reject out of hand any plan that he hasn’t come up with, especially if there’s nothing in it for him.

Absolutely. Because it isn't his plan he'll take it as a personal insult. His was rejected, so he's not going to allow one-upmanship.

I believe yesterday was as much about 'domestic consumption' as any peace deal.