Ukraine Plan to go forward?

Freya5

love0c

I see it like this. We are willing to give away our land (Chagas Islands) and pay the recipient millions of pounds as well. While on the other hand we are going to carry on giving millions and millions of pounds to another country to carry on fighting another country that wants to take their land.

It makes no sense whatsoever. Still. Nothing surprises me with this Government. Happy to throw our money at foreign countries, not so much our own eh!!

Could be that it makes no sense because you don't understand the complexities? Most of us don't have strong knowledge in this area and some do no research to fill that gap. That's a choice, but if you don't acknowledge it to yourself you assume knowledge, and we all know what that does.

I agree with you Babs03

Everything crossed that leaders with diplomacy and sense can negotiate a peace deal and that those who have neither can be persuaded it is in the best interests of all.

There has to be a deal where neither side loses face

What and how that deal can be agreed on is way above my pay grade, but I hope it happens soon.

Too many lives have been lost on both sides.

foxie48

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/03/02/us-troops-europe-trump-russia/

Interesting read in today's Washington Post, not sure if it's behind a paywall as I'm a subscriber but here's one quote from Vance that raises the question of where are the tech bros in all of this.
“There are thousands upon thousands of American troops in Germany today,” Vance said last month. “Do you think that the American taxpayer is going to stand for that if you get thrown in jail in Germany for posting a mean tweet? Of course they’re not.”

The US propaganda machine at work! They are doing the most awful things to US government employees in terms of restrictions of freedom of speech (disagree and you will get sacked, cyber over looking ofbmillions of communications) yet parading their "hurty tweet" ideology abroad

I read somewhere that Russia occupies 20% of Ukraine. That’s not most by any metric. If Trump secures an agreed % access to the other 80% he’ll be happy with that.

love0c

I see it like this. We are willing to give away our land (Chagas Islands) and pay the recipient millions of pounds as well. While on the other hand we are going to carry on giving millions and millions of pounds to another country to carry on fighting another country that wants to take their land.

It makes no sense whatsoever. Still. Nothing surprises me with this Government. Happy to throw our money at foreign countries, not so much our own eh!!

Sorry that my last post was so long.

I am also sorry if the American people feel attacked by our horror. They are not the enemy but the "fellow travellers" currently in the Whitehouse are the enemies of democracy.

I have just heard Mark Kelly (the Democratic Senator from Arizona) saying that the Oval Office meeting was a "complete and utter mess and this is a gift to Putin ... this makes us look weak. It's not normal behaviour ... this was not professional."

He also said that the Democrats and Republicans that support Ukraine had had a good meeting that morning with the President (Saturday?). They had it without cameras or reporters "intentionally" as "that's the way you should do this".

He does think America is now in a "much worse position". And that "the American people need to know that because of what happen ... we are far less safe."

To me, talking privately is good but you won't change who Trump is. That lack of knowledge and sophistication cannot be added to someone's character. Attractive as some find it its not the way to run a country,

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/03/02/us-troops-europe-trump-russia/

Interesting read in today's Washington Post, not sure if it's behind a paywall as I'm a subscriber but here's one quote from Vance that raises the question of where are the tech bros in all of this.
“There are thousands upon thousands of American troops in Germany today,” Vance said last month. “Do you think that the American taxpayer is going to stand for that if you get thrown in jail in Germany for posting a mean tweet? Of course they’re not.”

"Totally agree, US is trying to end the war and stop the waste of lives. How much misery has this war caused.
Save us from vertically challenged macho men!"

The only part of this I agree with, is that the war has caused misery to the people of Ukraine, their infrastructure including schools, hospitals, water and power supplies etc have been targeted by Russian drones. Ukrainian, Russian and also North Korean lives have been lost because of Putin's aggression. If he had not invaded Ukraine it would have been so much better for the world generally, eg we would not have suffered increases in our energy bills along with many other European countries, Poland would not have had 5.4 million refugees from Ukraine etc etc. Russia invaded Ukraine not the other way round!
With regard to "vertically challenged macho men" If you mean Zelensky then shame on you for insulting him. He has been courageous and single minded in defence of his country. If Ukraine had not defended herself at what point do you think the Russian troops would have stopped advancing? When they reached Moldova or Poland or before that?

I think you answered my question MaizieD "If the Russians occupy most of the territory has Trump come to some sort of agreement with them?"

I can believe that..there have been ongoing attacks on Zelensky for weeks now (that he's a dictator, that there "should" be elections and so on)

And what are the US getting from Putin for it?

Wyllow3

Zelensky has said he will sign the minerals deal, but it's not clear whether it's dependant on him "apologising". Meanwhile its still not clear to me as people have said how that contributes to a peace deal.

I think it’s more a bribe than anything else. The question is whether Trump’s greed will take precedence over his hurt feelings?

As far as I can see there are some question marks over this ‘deal’. I have seen it said that there is little certainty as to the extent and ease of extraction of these minerals, and that much of them are in Russian held areas of Ukraine.

Is Zelensky in fact offering a relatively worthless deal to someone too greedy and stupid to evaluate its true worth? If the Russians occupy most of the territory has Trump come to some sort of agreement with them?

From uk.gov
Chancellor Rachel Reeves and Ukraine’s Finance Minister Sergii Marchenko will today (Saturday 1 March) sign the UK-Ukraine Bilateral agreement.

From:
HM Treasury and The Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP
Published
1 March 2025

The £2.26 billion loan will bolster Ukrainian military capability, and will be paid back using profits generated on sanctioned Russian sovereign assets.
Chancellor Rachel Reeves and Ukrainian Finance Minister Sergii Marchenko will sign the formal loan agreement today (Saturday 1 March), with the first tranche of funding expected to reach Ukraine later next week.
The loan demonstrates the UK’s commitment to Ukrainian defence. A strong Ukraine is vital to UK national security – the first duty of any government and central to the Plan for Change.
Chancellor Rachel Reeves and Ukraine’s Finance Minister Sergii Marchenko will today (Saturday 1 March) sign the UK-Ukraine Bilateral agreement.

This agreement will deliver £2.26 billion in funding to Ukraine, which will be paid back using the extraordinary profits generated on sanctioned Russian sovereign assets held in the EU.

This is the UK’s contribution to the G7 Extraordinary Revenue Acceleration (ERA) Loans to Ukraine scheme, through which G7 countries will collectively provide $50 billion to support Ukraine.

Chancellor of the Exchequer Rachel Reeves said:

A safe and secure Ukraine is a safe and secure United Kingdom. This funding will bolster Ukraine’s armed forces and will put Ukraine in the strongest possible position at a critical juncture in the war.

It comes as we have increased our defence spending to 2.5% of GDP, which will deliver the stability required to keep us safe and underpin economic growth.

The loan will be fully earmarked for military procurement to bolster Ukraine’s defences, with the first tranche of funding expected to be disbursed to Ukraine next week.

Russia’s obligation under international law to pay for the damage it has caused to Ukraine is clear and this G7 agreement, backed by the profits generated on sanctioned Russian sovereign assets, is an important step to ensuring this happens.

The funding will be delivered in three equal annual payments of £752m.

The announcement of the loan agreement is on top of the £3 billion a year commitment by the UK to provide military aid for Ukraine. The Prime Minister has been clear that a strong Ukraine is vital to UK national security.

This loan follows the announcement by the Prime Minister committing the Government to increase UK defence spending to 2.5% of GDP by 2027, with an ambition to spend 3% of GDP on defence in the next parliament as economic and fiscal conditions allow.

This represents the biggest sustained increase in defence spending since the Cold War, safeguarding our collective security and funding the capabilities, technology and industrial capacity needed to keep the UK and our allies safe for generations to come.

As set out in the Plan for Change, national security is the first duty of the government, and investment in defence will protect UK citizens from threats at home while also creating a secure and stable environment for economic growth.

That is the Russian demand. They want a leader that is more sympathetic to Russia.

Russia seems to be calling the shots here.

Actually, it appears some US leaders want to go further and demand that it has to be a change from Zelensky, he has to go, before they will carry on dealing. Read this in this CNN report to see:

edition.cnn.com/2025/03/03/politics/zelensky-trump-europe-summit-starmer/index.html

I feel outraged. Europe has now done what it appeared Trump wanted - stepped up with resources - and sympathies in Europe remain strong about the bullying.

Zelensky has said he will sign the minerals deal, but it's not clear whether it's dependant on him "apologising". Meanwhile its still not clear to me as people have said how that contributes to a peace deal.

Is it being kept a secret - or was nothing of use agreed?

Meanwhile Trump seems to have moved on Cryptocurrency and Vance is off skiing.

Beginning to wonder if all the boasting of peace in Ukraine and a plan for Gaza is just so much hot air. Like their friend Farage - these guys might be better stirring up trouble than actually delivering.

All mouth and trousers.

The only thing that Trump has apparently come up with so far is a mineral deal, which is being used to repay money to USA

This isn’t a peace plan.

No word from Putin, no mention from Trump as to what they discussed or agreed. How can we hope for any sort of deal when this is being kept secret? None of the other parties who are trying to achieve peace can do a thing until this is clear.

US is trying to end the war and stop the waste of lives. How much misery has this war caused.

America has no plan to end the war.

Trump said signing the minerals deal would afford Ukraine, "The right to fight on". That's not ending the war, it's extortion and profiting from the spoils of war.

In reply to LovOc

“The Chagos Islands had been home to the Chagossians, a Bourbonnais Creole-speaking people, until the United Kingdom expelled them from the archipelago at the request of the United States between 1967 and 1973 to allow the United States to build Naval Support Facility Diego Garcia, a military base on Diego Garcia, on land leased from the UK military in the British Indian Ocean Territories. Since 1971, only the atoll of Diego Garcia has been inhabited, and only by employees of the US military, including American civilian contracted personnel. Since being expelled, Chagossians, like all others not permitted by the UK or US governments, have been prevented from entering the islands.”
“On 27 February 2025, speaking in the Oval Office alongside Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer, U.S. President Donald Trump stated that he was willing to support the agreement to transfer sovereignty of the Chagos Islands to Mauritius.”
Wikipedia

I don’t think it was ever ‘Our Land’ we took it from the Cagossian people and expelled them.

It seems that America has stopped monitoring any cyber threats and closed down any investigation? Why on earth would it do that?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Sadly, (realistically?) what are the London talks going to resolve? The fact is, that Trump and 74% of the Republican Party are not prepared to keep pumping billions of dollars of military aid into Ukraine, when the war is clearly at a stalemate 3 years after it started.

The US supplies around 60% of the total military assistance, so what is Europe going to do to prop up Zelensky? Start a war with Russia?

Like it or not, Zelensky has to make peace with Russia and if that means giving up Territory, then sadly, so be it. As Trump said, he has no cards to play. Peter Mandelson clearly realises this as well, hence his comments.

Totally agree, US is trying to end the war and stop the waste of lives. How much misery has this war caused.
Save us from vertically challenged macho men!

I see it like this. We are willing to give away our land (Chagas Islands) and pay the recipient millions of pounds as well. While on the other hand we are going to carry on giving millions and millions of pounds to another country to carry on fighting another country that wants to take their land.