Ukraine Plan to go forward?

TopSec I hated the debacle in the White House at the weekend and this should have been played out in private. However, what we don't need are British (or any other European Nationality) "boots on the ground" to give Starmer his "Maggie moment". I lost my son in 2009 when he was serving in Kosovo with the Peace Keeping Forces. Anyone who thinks that "boots on the ground" is the answer will soon change their mind when the body bags started coming home - and they will. Peace will only be achieved by talking and compromise. Stop letting the war mongers and the ones making a lot of money out of this war, win.

Agreed.

Mum and Dad lost brothers flying in ww2, we'd no living adult males in that generation. My condolences to you and your family.

PoliticsNerd

I don't think they should Willow, but that is my bias, just as others are biased towards support for Trump.

I just remember that the last payment for lease-lend was made on 29 December 2006 for the sum of about $83m USD (£45.5m) to the United States. We never once tried to negotiate it down - it was a debt of honour.

Interestingly the US never paid France its Revolution debt. It seems that the US puts a high price on the democracy of others but expect to pay nothing to allies for there own. At the beginning of WWII America were neutral but their leader now seems to want to side with the aggressor.

Allies change. I hope the US remains ours but I would put that at 50/50 over time.

I think America want war far off their shores. They will spend - but like the Lend Lease of ww2, they want all their money back with interest.

How is this any different?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Sadly, (realistically?) what are the London talks going to resolve? The fact is, that Trump and 74% of the Republican Party are not prepared to keep pumping billions of dollars of military aid into Ukraine, when the war is clearly at a stalemate 3 years after it started.

The US supplies around 60% of the total military assistance, so what is Europe going to do to prop up Zelensky? Start a war with Russia?

Like it or not, Zelensky has to make peace with Russia and if that means giving up Territory, then sadly, so be it. As Trump said, he has no cards to play. Peter Mandelson clearly realises this as well, hence his comments.

Well said FriedGreenTomatoes2 Europe (and the US under Biden) have been funding a war that Ukraine cannot win, even with US $s The only way this is going to happen is for all parties to sit around a table and negotiate - some compromise has to be made from both sides. Zelensky said to Trump during that horrendous meeting that "this war is far from over" which gives some the feeling he is not looking for peace. Love him or hate him, Trump (and his ego) has got the talking started, Whether it goes the way it should remains to be seen. I hated the debacle in the White House at the weekend and this should have been played out in private. However, what we don't need are British (or any other European Nationality) "boots on the ground" to give Starmer his "Maggie moment". I lost my son in 2009 when he was serving in Kosovo with the Peace Keeping Forces. Anyone who thinks that "boots on the ground" is the answer will soon change their mind when the body bags started coming home - and they will. Peace will only be achieved by talking and compromise. Stop letting the war mongers and the ones making a lot of money out of this war, win.

Trump wants to deal and trade with Russia and reduce the continual defence cost, before the war Russia was becoming quite liberal by past standard, western goods and influence were commonplace, the sanctions stopped all that but did not reduce Russias ability to attack Ukraine.

That is, Trump is looking like he is friendly with Putin.

^There will be no peace unless Putin comes to the table and a conclusion is sought.
^

Someone I know reckons that is why Trump is acting as he is. Personally I am not so sure.

That has not been much use to Ukraine so far.

David49

Casdon

I also think that you’re over estimating Russia’s current military strength David49.

It’s not so much that Russias current conventional strength, they have nuclear weapons and also the ability to strike outside Ukraine, direct damage to European and UK infrastructure is a real risk if we get directly involved.

Europes, particularly Germanys dependance on Russian energy was a big mistake, the war has crippled economies including the UK

The U.K. may be short on man power in our armed forces to keep a long term sustainable rotation of boots on the ground

Our technology along with our ability to target any country anywhere in the world with both conventional and nuclear weapons are still a force to be reckoned with

Casdon

I also think that you’re over estimating Russia’s current military strength David49.

It’s not so much that Russias current conventional strength, they have nuclear weapons and also the ability to strike outside Ukraine, direct damage to European and UK infrastructure is a real risk if we get directly involved.

Europes, particularly Germanys dependance on Russian energy was a big mistake, the war has crippled economies including the UK

Putin isn't as strong as people are led to believe. Aggression is not strength but weakness, and he was sure that Kyiv would fall in a few days.
Russia has lost more soldiers for very little gain. They also are running out of options.
There will be no peace unless Putin comes to the table and a conclusion is sought.
Trump misunderstands complexity and Putin is a very complex man. The only thing they have in common is that they are bullies ganging up on who they perceive to be be weak.
Europe will not fold and the US will not succeed with Trump. The US is headed to hell in a hand-cart if they believe Putin is on anyone else's side.

I find this horrifying

apple.news/A-hA22a2uRyyOU_wn92ySeA

^
The world doesn’t need Trump as much as you think^

Ukraine sadly does.

The huge threat is that forces in the Balkans take this opportunity to start another war there. These are very dangerous times for the whole of Europe and Trump has destabilised an already unstable world.

I also think that you’re over estimating Russia’s current military strength David49.

I agree * foxie* - Mr Putin's plans don't end with Ukraine.

I agree with your comment about weakness however having got into this situation, this is definitely a time to show solidarity with the rest of Europe and some strength. Russia won't stop at Ukraine.

Syracute

David :

The world doesn’t need Trump as much as you think . This is again TRUMPSPEAK .
You have been led down the garden path on that one . Where was Trump when the Afghanistan war needed ending . Nowhere . He promised to end that as well .
You give to much confidence in someone who has a bunch of dangerous incompetents in place .
I do think that Europe has the capabilities in that they will out clever Trump .
After all Europe has dealt with up front aggression many times . Trump just doesn’t have the experience or knowledge .
He also has not stopped the conflict in Gaza .
This was all promised in his campaign speech . It was all going to be instantly solved the moment he ascended the throne ( oops ) but peace is a complex issue and it will not be resolved lickety split . I think Europe’s idea of a truce is a good first step .

Europes only strength is NATO strength, that is backed by US strength, that is the reality of our security and has been for our entire lifetimes. We have neglected our own defence, and become incredibly weak, NATO missed the chance to defend Ukraine, now we have to face reality, the war can’t be won, end the fighting and strengthen defenses.

Ukraine has paid a high price for our weakness

Churchview

*Keir is very firm in his belief that USA is vital.*

Very measured and sensible of him to remain diplomatic rather than throw the (orange) baby out with the bath water.

Yuck. I immediately thought of the greasy orange scum ring round the bath. Actually though, that’s exactly what there would be. Diplomacy is the only way.

So Trump has frozen military aid to Ukraine until Ukraine agrees a peace deal without relying on US backing. It was to be expected, I suppose, but it potentially gives Russia the opportunity for a further push ino Ukraine.
This is playing into Russia's hands and will he have the same approach to Taiwan?

Keir is very firm in his belief that USA is vital.

Very measured and sensible of him to remain diplomatic rather than throw the (orange) baby out with the bath water.

Now that Trump has thrown Ukraine under a bus to appease his puppetmaster, Putin, he and Musk will be wondering which choice chunks of Ukraine they'll be rewarded with......

I do want to be crystal clear: we must strengthen our relationship with America, for our security, for our technology, for our trade and investment.
They are and always will be indispensable, and we will never choose between either side of the Atlantic," he said.

If anything, the past week has shown that the idea is totally unserious, because while some people may enjoy the simplicity of taking a side, this week has shown with total clarity that the US is vital in securing the peace we all want to see in Ukraine

Keir is very firm in his belief that USA is vital.

A letter from Lech Walesa to Trump:

www.reuters.com/world/polish-cold-war-hero-walesa-writes-trump-expressing-horror-zelenskiy-spat-2025-03-03/

David :

The world doesn’t need Trump as much as you think . This is again TRUMPSPEAK .
You have been led down the garden path on that one . Where was Trump when the Afghanistan war needed ending . Nowhere . He promised to end that as well .
You give to much confidence in someone who has a bunch of dangerous incompetents in place .
I do think that Europe has the capabilities in that they will out clever Trump .
After all Europe has dealt with up front aggression many times . Trump just doesn’t have the experience or knowledge .
He also has not stopped the conflict in Gaza .
This was all promised in his campaign speech . It was all going to be instantly solved the moment he ascended the throne ( oops ) but peace is a complex issue and it will not be resolved lickety split . I think Europe’s idea of a truce is a good first step .

Oh, Spitting Image, where are you now? (well I do know the answer to the question!) But how wonderful they would have been, showing DT as a tantrum , screaming fit ,2 year old or perhaps we could still have the rather pink pig style balloon of him floating over london and we could take pot shots at it.

Well the options are either to ignore his tantrums and try and take as little notice of him as possible whilst we all get on with trying to live in a better way, or have nightmares thinking that this absolute narcissitic, selfcentred deluded crackpot is actually in charge of anything, nevermind being a president. The one good thing is that we have heard him say himself he doesnt remember what he said the day before ,so give him a couple of days and perhaps someone could give him a new dummy and let him sleep on it and he wont remember half of what he said!! God help us all while he is in charge\2