There's something wrong with the poor ........ ???

Indigo8

This idea turns the Protestant work ethic on its head. In the UK we are wedded to the idea that work is somehow virtuous and to not be working, for whatever reason, renders you morally inferior. Keir Starmer is pushing this concept for all he is worth.

It would take a giant shift of attitude to make this viable in the UK where, at the very top there is a layer of very highly paid people whose pay is not always performance related. At the other end, we have people working long hours and struggling and people who can't or won't work, both living below the poverty line. This is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. As long as we adopt the "They only have themselves to blame" and "The world doesn't owe them a living" attitudes it will remain so.

I think the salient point here is that one can still choose to work, whenever and wherever one chooses, so the capacity to make a lot of money still remains, taxes will still be paid and I believe a large percentage of our society would choose to work.

Whilst I agree there a too many people not working who could, there are far far more people in work than not.

Agree wholeheartedly Indigo8.

ViceVersa

Yes, Cossy, I'm in agreement with that too. But I can't see it being accepted here any time soon, unfortunately.

I understand why, it’s far too innovative and “outside the box” for our traditional govts. It is a great shame.

This idea turns the Protestant work ethic on its head. In the UK we are wedded to the idea that work is somehow virtuous and to not be working, for whatever reason, renders you morally inferior. Keir Starmer is pushing this concept for all he is worth.

It would take a giant shift of attitude to make this viable in the UK where, at the very top there is a layer of very highly paid people whose pay is not always performance related. At the other end, we have people working long hours and struggling and people who can't or won't work, both living below the poverty line. This is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. As long as we adopt the "They only have themselves to blame" and "The world doesn't owe them a living" attitudes it will remain so.

Yes, Cossy, I'm in agreement with that too. But I can't see it being accepted here any time soon, unfortunately.

Ilovecheese

In places where a universal income has been tried out, I believe it has been successful. I don't think it would ever be acceptable to the British public though, it is too radical. We seem to very resistant to change, particularly if it appears to be "soft", a stick always seems to be more popular than a carrot in this country.

Which is a great shame, as I truly believe it would work and is a far, cost effective system.

“Universal Income”, (not to be confused with Universal Credit), is, in theory, a brilliant and innovative idea.

The point of it is every adult, working or not, receives an amount of money to allow them to live a reasonable lifestyle, not for luxuries, holidays etc etc.

It replaces EVERY state benefit, including State Pensions, it is NOT means tested, so anyone with any get up and go will also work or study. It gives people a greater freedom to retrain or study later in life and take time off when they have young children.

Bit of a quote from FGT's article
"The trial involved paying monthly payments of £1,600 each to a group of 635 care leavers. The scheme, which began in 2022, was offered to all young people leaving the care system at the age of 18.

The scheme has yet to be fully evaluated, but initial feedback has been positive. And given the success of many similar projects around the world, there is a good chance it will have significantly improved the wellbeing of the participants, who are a particularly vulnerable group.

If the pilot were to be expanded, we could learn more about the long-term impacts of UBI and its advantages across the population, including whether it could actually save money. But not continuing the scheme risks squandering these potential benefits and losing the momentum that might make it possible for UBI to be rolled out more widely. And all before we even know how successful the pilot has been.

Um, not sure targeting one group of people e.g. care leavers, counts as "universal" but I could be nit picking here.

I agree with you Ilovecheese.
We all like to treat ourselves when and if we can, compatible with our means.

I think the very wealthy need to feel that they have done something special, that they are different and better in some way than poor people. I don't think it would suit them for poverty to be eradicated.

The Welsh government has announced that its Universal Basic Income (UBI) project will not be continued after the initial pilot ends in May 2025 because of the cost. The trial involved paying monthly payments of £1,600 each to a group of 635 care leavers.

www.salford.ac.uk/news/universal-basic-income-wales-is-set-to-end-its-experiment-why-we-think-thats-a-mistake#:~:text=The%20Welsh%20government%20has%20announced,group%20of%20635%20care%20leavers.

Just had a look at the talk. Not sure about the IQ tests, but then I don't think I Q is a measure of real intelligence, just puzzle solving.
He asks why the poor make so many poor decisions but often the decisions that you make when you have very little money can seem very sensible under those circumstances. Someone might know that however they scrimp they will never earn enough to be able to save for a car, may well treat themselves to a taxi trip to the shops.
Someone who can't afford to eat in expensive restaurants may well treat themselves to a shop bought coffee.
They are not bad decisions under their own particular circumstances.

In places where a universal income has been tried out, I believe it has been successful. I don't think it would ever be acceptable to the British public though, it is too radical. We seem to very resistant to change, particularly if it appears to be "soft", a stick always seems to be more popular than a carrot in this country.

Seems unfair to me.