There's something wrong with the poor ........ ???

Seems unfair to me.

In places where a universal income has been tried out, I believe it has been successful. I don't think it would ever be acceptable to the British public though, it is too radical. We seem to very resistant to change, particularly if it appears to be "soft", a stick always seems to be more popular than a carrot in this country.

Just had a look at the talk. Not sure about the IQ tests, but then I don't think I Q is a measure of real intelligence, just puzzle solving.
He asks why the poor make so many poor decisions but often the decisions that you make when you have very little money can seem very sensible under those circumstances. Someone might know that however they scrimp they will never earn enough to be able to save for a car, may well treat themselves to a taxi trip to the shops.
Someone who can't afford to eat in expensive restaurants may well treat themselves to a shop bought coffee.
They are not bad decisions under their own particular circumstances.

The Welsh government has announced that its Universal Basic Income (UBI) project will not be continued after the initial pilot ends in May 2025 because of the cost. The trial involved paying monthly payments of £1,600 each to a group of 635 care leavers.

www.salford.ac.uk/news/universal-basic-income-wales-is-set-to-end-its-experiment-why-we-think-thats-a-mistake#:~:text=The%20Welsh%20government%20has%20announced,group%20of%20635%20care%20leavers.

I think the very wealthy need to feel that they have done something special, that they are different and better in some way than poor people. I don't think it would suit them for poverty to be eradicated.

I agree with you Ilovecheese.
We all like to treat ourselves when and if we can, compatible with our means.

Um, not sure targeting one group of people e.g. care leavers, counts as "universal" but I could be nit picking here.

Bit of a quote from FGT's article
"The trial involved paying monthly payments of £1,600 each to a group of 635 care leavers. The scheme, which began in 2022, was offered to all young people leaving the care system at the age of 18.

The scheme has yet to be fully evaluated, but initial feedback has been positive. And given the success of many similar projects around the world, there is a good chance it will have significantly improved the wellbeing of the participants, who are a particularly vulnerable group.

If the pilot were to be expanded, we could learn more about the long-term impacts of UBI and its advantages across the population, including whether it could actually save money. But not continuing the scheme risks squandering these potential benefits and losing the momentum that might make it possible for UBI to be rolled out more widely. And all before we even know how successful the pilot has been.

“Universal Income”, (not to be confused with Universal Credit), is, in theory, a brilliant and innovative idea.

The point of it is every adult, working or not, receives an amount of money to allow them to live a reasonable lifestyle, not for luxuries, holidays etc etc.

It replaces EVERY state benefit, including State Pensions, it is NOT means tested, so anyone with any get up and go will also work or study. It gives people a greater freedom to retrain or study later in life and take time off when they have young children.

Ilovecheese

In places where a universal income has been tried out, I believe it has been successful. I don't think it would ever be acceptable to the British public though, it is too radical. We seem to very resistant to change, particularly if it appears to be "soft", a stick always seems to be more popular than a carrot in this country.

Which is a great shame, as I truly believe it would work and is a far, cost effective system.

Yes, Cossy, I'm in agreement with that too. But I can't see it being accepted here any time soon, unfortunately.

This idea turns the Protestant work ethic on its head. In the UK we are wedded to the idea that work is somehow virtuous and to not be working, for whatever reason, renders you morally inferior. Keir Starmer is pushing this concept for all he is worth.

It would take a giant shift of attitude to make this viable in the UK where, at the very top there is a layer of very highly paid people whose pay is not always performance related. At the other end, we have people working long hours and struggling and people who can't or won't work, both living below the poverty line. This is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. As long as we adopt the "They only have themselves to blame" and "The world doesn't owe them a living" attitudes it will remain so.

ViceVersa

Yes, Cossy, I'm in agreement with that too. But I can't see it being accepted here any time soon, unfortunately.

I understand why, it’s far too innovative and “outside the box” for our traditional govts. It is a great shame.

Agree wholeheartedly Indigo8.

Indigo8

This idea turns the Protestant work ethic on its head. In the UK we are wedded to the idea that work is somehow virtuous and to not be working, for whatever reason, renders you morally inferior. Keir Starmer is pushing this concept for all he is worth.

It would take a giant shift of attitude to make this viable in the UK where, at the very top there is a layer of very highly paid people whose pay is not always performance related. At the other end, we have people working long hours and struggling and people who can't or won't work, both living below the poverty line. This is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. As long as we adopt the "They only have themselves to blame" and "The world doesn't owe them a living" attitudes it will remain so.

I think the salient point here is that one can still choose to work, whenever and wherever one chooses, so the capacity to make a lot of money still remains, taxes will still be paid and I believe a large percentage of our society would choose to work.

Whilst I agree there a too many people not working who could, there are far far more people in work than not.

It was tried already. It failed. Universal Basic Income (UBI) is not a new concept. It doesn’t create wealth. It eventually breaks down when the funding runs out.

I don't think IQ tests are a measure of intelligence, just puzzle solving.

I agree Ilovecheese. Perhaps this is a subject for another thread.

Boz where did it fail? How was it evaluated?

Ilovecheese

Boz where did it fail? How was it evaluated?

Can't answer that one but surely, in this day and age, it is unaffordable and a political hot-potato.

Boz

It was tried already. It failed. Universal Basic Income (UBI) is not a new concept. It doesn’t create wealth. It eventually breaks down when the funding runs out.

Probably because in trials all other benefits are not stopped.

It’s the cessation of ALL other benefits which pay for this.

I’m aware it’s not new, but I’m also aware it seems only have been trialled in very small numbers.

Boz UBI may have failed but there are examples of it working so the concept can't be dismissed out of hand.

Ilovecheese

I think the very wealthy need to feel that they have done something special, that they are different and better in some way than poor people. I don't think it would suit them for poverty to be eradicated.

For poverty to be eradicated the wealthy would have to lose some of their current wealth and be prevented from acquiring so much in the future. I can't see a UBI contributing to either of those things.

I'm very dubious about the idea that a UBI will give people more choices about work, study and leisure and we will all become happy and fulfilled people full of creativity and innovative ideas and working in lovely jobs. I often wonder who would be choosing to do the sh*tty jobs? I think it's a bit of a utopian concept.

In the fiscal year 2023-24, the UK government spent an estimated £265.5 billion on pensions and benefits, with about half of that (£134.8 billion) specifically allocated to benefits for pensioners, including the state pension.

This is what could fund UBI, on top of this we would still have many people working and paying taxes.

Mazie I do get your point, no, utopia wouldn’t occur as a result of UBI, but it could prevent poverty and it certainly would give far more choices, particularly to families with children.