NHS England changed

I’m not so sure.
NHS England was created to move the health service from constant political reorganisation every time there’s a change of government. That was a laudable aim. But the NHS is so unwieldy that no secretary of state can resist the temptation to change things.
Too much centralisation and the whole thing gets snarled up.
Delegate to regions and the result is postcode lottery of services which is unpopular.
Also the vastness of the NHS makes it as slow to turn round as an ocean-going liner. I agree that most of the jobs will still be needed and there will be the stressful turmoil of people reapplying for their own jobs under different titles. No doubt some duplication will disappear but many of the despised ‘back office’ jobs are there to free the health professionals from doing their own admin.
I think it was obvious that Wes Streeting was going to do this - Matt Hancock tried - but he will be long gone before we know whether it’s really worked. And suppose we have a Tory government next whose health priority is not waiting lists but children’s services. There was a fair point behind NHS England.

David49

Iam64

It’s nothing like taking a leaf out of trump’s plsybook. It’s exactly what we hoped for from Starmer’s government . Confident positive brave long term plans

It was a tongue in cheek comment, but if Starmer is going to do that to all the other Quangos it sounds good to me. OFWAT should be a prime target they have done a useless job of regulating water.

Step by step David, there are the huge benefit reforms on the way, and each area has its own structures and needs.

winterwhite

I’m not so sure.
NHS England was created to move the health service from constant political reorganisation every time there’s a change of government. That was a laudable aim. But the NHS is so unwieldy that no secretary of state can resist the temptation to change things.
Too much centralisation and the whole thing gets snarled up.
Delegate to regions and the result is postcode lottery of services which is unpopular.
Also the vastness of the NHS makes it as slow to turn round as an ocean-going liner. I agree that most of the jobs will still be needed and there will be the stressful turmoil of people reapplying for their own jobs under different titles. No doubt some duplication will disappear but many of the despised ‘back office’ jobs are there to free the health professionals from doing their own admin.
I think it was obvious that Wes Streeting was going to do this - Matt Hancock tried - but he will be long gone before we know whether it’s really worked. And suppose we have a Tory government next whose health priority is not waiting lists but children’s services. There was a fair point behind NHS England.

I think you have to look at what benefit NHS England added to the management of the NHS in England. What is better than it was when Labour left government in 2010?

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

Every reorganisation so far has seen the proliferation of more non medical staff, so this is a good turnabout to get rid of some of them and have more control. Will this be the DHSS?

It was evident from radio phone ins yesterday that many people thought the NHS was being abolished.
Which is understandable I think.

Yesterdays headlines have a lot to answer for, todays are mostly clearer its "change" but the Telegraph still says NHS England "Scrapped" and the Times "abolished"

ronib

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

Has become a great behemoth!.

It stays for now, but how long.

David49

ronib

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

Has become a great behemoth!.

It stays for now, but how long.

For at least the duration of this government and the next. Minimum of 10 years, but if this government manage to turn it round as they are beginning to do, longer. There’s no national appetite for abolishing the NHS, even amongst Tory voters.

Whichever model we look at in other EU countries, they are still behemoths of different kinds!

France:

In France, the Ministry of Social Affairs and Health (Ministère des Affaires Sociales et de la Santé), along with regional health agencies (ARS), oversees the healthcare system, including public health, healthcare planning, and financing.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
National Level:
The Ministry of Social Affairs and Health, headed by the Minister of Health, sets national health policy and allocates budgets to regional health agencies.
The Ministry is responsible for regulating public healthcare facilities and managing the health insurance sector of the French Social Security system.
The Ministry is also responsible for setting the prices of specific medical procedures and drugs.
Regional Level:
Regional Health Agencies (ARS) are responsible for coordinating population health and healthcare, prevention and care delivery, public health, and social care within their regions.
These agencies are morally and financially autonomous public institutions under the supervision of the central Ministry of Social Affairs and Health.
Other Key Players:
Santé publique France: Plays a role in developing health policies for young people, carrying out statistical and qualitative studies and surveys on health.
Caisse Nationale de l'Assurance Maladie (CNAM): Heads the French health insurance system, defining guidelines, implementing agreements between health insurance funds and health professionals, and developing health expenditure control.
High Council on Public Health (Haut Conseil de la santé publique - HCSP): Issues opinions and recommendations on health and well-being, and can be consulted by ministers and parliamentary committees.
Haute Autorité de Santé (HAS): An independent body that provides recommendations and advice on healthcare practices and policies.

Germany......(similar number of complex inter-relational bodies and divisions of responsibility between federal and state) overseen by Health Ministry)

Casdon that is partly my point. The NHS is such a behemoth (good word of somebody’s) that there is never time to see what is working and what isn’t and build on one and dial back the other.
I want this to work as much as everyone else.

Casdon

David49

ronib

Churchview The NHS may not be curable. Only time will tell. It’s becoming such a huge behemoth, it may need a different model.

Has become a great behemoth!.

It stays for now, but how long.

For at least the duration of this government and the next. Minimum of 10 years, but if this government manage to turn it round as they are beginning to do, longer. There’s no national appetite for abolishing the NHS, even amongst Tory voters.

Agreed, it will stay for that period
One way that NHS could be restricted is by Means Testing - if you’re rich you pay. However I would expect the current parliament to pass it

That’s not going to be popular , but neither was WFA or NHI insurance

Just a quick comment - about means testing. Most wealthy (and not so wealthy) folk are already paying for their healthcare via the private sector. Many can't wait years for hip replacements, mental health therapy etc etc. I know many (including myself) who've paid for treatment due to long waiting times.

I agree twinnytwin. The ‘rich’ already pay for private treatment. I assume David isn’t suggesting charging them for emergency treatment in A&E which only NHS hospitals offer.

A friend of ours paid over £20,000 for a TKR as the waiting list was horrendous and he was in a lot of pain. We could never afford to do that.

Barleyfields

I agree twinnytwin. The ‘rich’ already pay for private treatment. I assume David isn’t suggesting charging them for emergency treatment in A&E which only NHS hospitals offer.

I have paid, once, it was simple I had the cash so I paid someone else got my place in the waiting list. I feel OK about that.

I just think high income/wealthy are a easy target for more taxation.

As you keep saying, which makes me wonder if you are outside that bra?

Barleyfields

As you keep saying, which makes me wonder if you are outside that bra?

I haven’t heard the comment “ out of my bra?” before

I hadn’t thought of A&E. Not sure, they do charge foreigners at present there is a payment system, but it could be any scheme you choose.

Great idea!!! There's nothing tories like better than creating a quango with highly paid executives.
An MP who is also a GP (Tory, Luke Evans) was on question time last night and he said when he offered to help with covid vaccinations he was interviewed by 4 people and several times who would be responsible for his appointment and they said all of them! It's a ridiculous duplication of work and these managers won't be on minimum wage, thats for sure.

David49

Barleyfields

As you keep saying, which makes me wonder if you are outside that bra?

I haven’t heard the comment “ out of my bra?” before

I hadn’t thought of A&E. Not sure, they do charge foreigners at present there is a payment system, but it could be any scheme you choose.

I meant to say bracket!🤣🤣🤣

Oops.

Which bracket.

spabbygirl

Great idea!!! There's nothing tories like better than creating a quango with highly paid executives.
An MP who is also a GP (Tory, Luke Evans) was on question time last night and he said when he offered to help with covid vaccinations he was interviewed by 4 people and several times who would be responsible for his appointment and they said all of them! It's a ridiculous duplication of work and these managers won't be on minimum wage, thats for sure.

You are about the Tory gravy train for quangos

spabbygirl

Great idea!!! There's nothing tories like better than creating a quango with highly paid executives.
An MP who is also a GP (Tory, Luke Evans) was on question time last night and he said when he offered to help with covid vaccinations he was interviewed by 4 people and several times who would be responsible for his appointment and they said all of them! It's a ridiculous duplication of work and these managers won't be on minimum wage, thats for sure.

Actually Labour have created 27 quangos since the election.

David49

spabbygirl

Great idea!!! There's nothing tories like better than creating a quango with highly paid executives.
An MP who is also a GP (Tory, Luke Evans) was on question time last night and he said when he offered to help with covid vaccinations he was interviewed by 4 people and several times who would be responsible for his appointment and they said all of them! It's a ridiculous duplication of work and these managers won't be on minimum wage, thats for sure.

You are about the Tory gravy train for quangos

Are correct

I wonder how it's going to affect the country as a whole if 10,000 people are going to be sacked? How much will be spent on redundancy payments, unemployment benefits etc ? Will it really save all these billions of pounds? And, of course, will it improve the NHS service?