*The Welfare Benefit changes*

The sooner they sort out the maalingerers the better. The welfare state has for too long been supporting some people who do not want to work.They know how to manipulate the system
People who genuinely need help should still be entitled to tjeir benefits.
Lets hopwe the government get it right but I don't have a lot of faith.

I agree with all your points yellowfox. What worries me is that Rachel Reeves restated her assertion that pensions are benefits. Most people I know earned their occupational and state pensions through working but we all know people whose pensions are funded through state benefits in place of work it worries me that the Chancellor is lining pensioners up for another tax grabs whether they earned their pensions or not

I recognise the controversy orly however ...

"However, use of the word “benefit” for retirement pension (latterly known as State Pension) has always been classified in law from the time of the1946 National Insurance Act, which applied from the inception of the National Insurance scheme."

Most of us including myself feel it should be treated and named entirely differently for out protection

However it should reassure somewhat that this "Welfare Benefits Changes" doesnt include pensions and in practice they are dealt with separately.

Orly. Not everyone who received NI credits are the unemployed. I did for the period of time I did not work but was bringing up my children. Those receiving sickness benefits will also be given credits and thse are funded through Government so are classed as a benefit

I’m like to see the government investing some of these billions!! In setting up the old style remploy factory’s and produce equipment that the NHS, Education, Councils and Government departments use instead of importing it from China etc. anyone applying for unemployment benefits would only get money if they go to work in these factories! Would that not make sense?

It would definitely make sense to have schemes that offer supported return to work with support type employment. there used to be community work schemes iirc.

They are very expensive however - at the moment it's clearly felt that individual support for work (which does currently sometimes include groups) is the viable option.

yellowfox

The sooner they sort out the maalingerers the better. The welfare state has for too long been supporting some people who do not want to work.They know how to manipulate the system
People who genuinely need help should still be entitled to tjeir benefits.
Lets hopwe the government get it right but I don't have a lot of faith.

I do agree, but as you say government bureaucracy often fails people.This all has to be done right.

sparkynan

I’m like to see the government investing some of these billions!! In setting up the old style remploy factory’s and produce equipment that the NHS, Education, Councils and Government departments use instead of importing it from China etc. anyone applying for unemployment benefits would only get money if they go to work in these factories! Would that not make sense?

I couldn't agree more about Remploy. It was a tragic mistake when they were closed down. Nevertheless, there are some similar organisations springing up. This is one:

www.enterpriseeast.org/

The above is for people with learning difficulties, but it wouldn't be rocket science to set something up for different audiences.

A friend of mine runs an allotment/market garden specifically for people with social difficulties. Many of the people who work there are former drug addicts and alcoholics or ex-prisoners.

I think there have always been small-scale operations, so it needs co-ordination with others such as the JobCentres.

It's probably naive to think that current employers can take these people on, so jobs and training opportunities need to be created.

Wyllow3 - re Kendall's proposal about helping people who will receive extra protection who have paid into the system - we had this pre Thatcher whereby Unemployment Benefit & Sickness Benefit, as it was then, was calculated on your previous NI contributions - a fair system I would say-but the Tories scrapped it soon after winning the '79 election meaning that someone unfortunate enough to become unemployed or incapacitated received the same as someone who had never bothered working.

Indeed Jockytaff. I'm not in touch with how the system works these days, but it used to be that people receiving contributory Unemployment Benefit (before UC) weren't means-tested for three months, but they were eligible for less support thanthose receiving non-contributory UB. As a result, those whose contributions were up-to-date received less than those who had never contributed, which seemed nuts to me.

None of it affects me.

How smug. One day it might affect you. Things can change in an instant.

I remember Remploy. I had a friend who was had MH issues and was taking largacatil but she worked there full time and seemed to enjoy it. This was in the early 1980's.

On C4 News last night they interviewed a man who hadn't worked for the past 10 years due to depression. To me if someone has severe depression they can't get out of bed in the morning/self harming or suicide attempts, then they can't possibly work but this chap seemed relatively cheerful was out and about etc. Obviously you can't judge from a 5 minute interview.

There was an interesting item on R4 today "Age of Diagnosis" by a consultant in neurology. Basically she was saying that autism is being over diagnosed to the detriment of individuals with severe autism who are now waiting longer and longer for treatment due to increased waiting lists. She described a child who is non verbal, rocks constantly or flaps his hands, has violent episodes and other symptoms- that is autism Mild autism is diagnosed as

"People with mild autism may have relatively mild impairments in social communication and interaction, as well as restricted and repetitive behaviors. While they may face challenges in certain areas, they can also possess strengths and abilities that contribute to their overall development and well-being."

I know two individuals who have received diagnosis. They function normally and are not impaired neurogically, however they have a few issues such as anger management, anxiety or difficulties making friends. So now they have been formally diagnosed. Their parent said they didn't think they would ever hold down a job.

I believe these issues are mainly due to being over indulged and always allowed their own way as children.

I suffered severe anxiety during most of my working career and I received medication for it. I knew that if I did not work we would probably lose our home so I continued to work throughout a dark period.

Barleyfields

As it’s only a Green Paper we don’t know what the changes will be after the consultation, how much the proposals will be watered down, nor when any changes will come into effect. Having known (and successfully reported) a benefits fraudster I would like to see more energy directed towards weeding them out in addition to serious cutbacks. How do you help someone into work who doesn’t want to work? Will benefits be withdrawn?

Tut, tut Barleyfields.

Tut tut? If you know someone is committing benefits fraud it’s your moral duty to report them. I assume you would just turn a blind eye?

What jobs? What employment? I think a review is definitely needed as the bill is rocketing but there doesn’t seem to be any thought given to the scarcity of jobs/training available.

GANNET

What jobs? What employment? I think a review is definitely needed as the bill is rocketing but there doesn’t seem to be any thought given to the scarcity of jobs/training available.

That's why part of the package needs to be creation of jobs and training opportunities. In the short term, at least, it won't save money.

I agree growstuff that is indeed the best way forward. But it won't save money and in the situation we are in these supportive jobs would need to be around a substantial time. (I dont have an easy answer to this)

I don't really have an idea how many jobs are around GANNET that fit the bill as suitable for who is employed. Perhaps someone else has more idea.

My son has long covid and the scrapping of the capability assessment will affect him. He had it right at the start of the pandemic and, as there were no tests at that time, he has been refused PIP. Covid affected his brain, heart, lungs, liver and stomach. There was a time round about week 5/6 I thought he would die. His GP, who worked in the covid ward at the local hospital, said he was 100% sure that he'd had covid. He was really fit prior to covid and carried out a heavy manual job but he is a shadow of the man he used to be. God knows what this means for him.

Posted too early Meant to add that not all people on incapacity are workshy.

wibblywobblywobblebottom

None of it affects me.

And! 🤷‍♀️

I do agree if one can work one should.
But for those who are on the border line I feel sorry for as what job they could do wouldn’t pay much. However, we must be handing out too much as the Uk pays out the most compared to the other European countries
My daughter-in-law who comes from Tanzania was so surprised when she first found that one can get benefits which doesn’t happen in Africa.

Is everyone here aware that Barclays, HSBC are two of 4 banks that own the Motobility scheme and that 1 in 5 new cars bought are bought by this scheme?
It must be a nice little earner otherwise the above wouldn’t be involved.

Wyllow3

I agree growstuff that is indeed the best way forward. But it won't save money and in the situation we are in these supportive jobs would need to be around a substantial time. (I dont have an easy answer to this)

I don't really have an idea how many jobs are around GANNET that fit the bill as suitable for who is employed. Perhaps someone else has more idea.

The jobs I wrote about before (at Enterprise East and my friend's allotment/market garden) are new jobs and are sustainable in the long term. There are others.

stewaris

My son has long covid and the scrapping of the capability assessment will affect him. He had it right at the start of the pandemic and, as there were no tests at that time, he has been refused PIP. Covid affected his brain, heart, lungs, liver and stomach. There was a time round about week 5/6 I thought he would die. His GP, who worked in the covid ward at the local hospital, said he was 100% sure that he'd had covid. He was really fit prior to covid and carried out a heavy manual job but he is a shadow of the man he used to be. God knows what this means for him.

Although in the first paragraph in the summary of Universal Credit in the O/P it does say that work capability assessments will be scrapped....

Its actually ambiguous in the detailed green paper -
It doesn't say people will be refused basic Universal Credit - but appears to relate to who makes assessments for getting it/getting more as in here

"Scrapping the WCA to end the labelling of people as either ‘can or can’t work’ and consulting on a new single assessment. Under the new system, any extra financial support for health conditions (including PIP, ESA or UC health) will be assessed via a new single assessment which will be based on the PIP assessment – considering on the impact of disability on daily living, not on capacity to work.

Increasing Face-to-Face Assessments for PIP and the WCA to improve the quality of assessment decision

while ensuring we continue to meet the needs of those with who may require a different method of assessment."

In this paper

www.gov.uk/government/news/biggest-shake-up-to-welfare-system-in-a-generation-to-get-britain-working#:~:text=Under%20the%20new%20system%2C%20any,not%20on%20capacity%20to%20work.

Please don't assume your son will get help until getting more information. I'm sorry its so distressing.x