Nothing but nothing, can excuse Israel breaking the cease-fire in Gaza

The truth is that hamas know it’s game over for them and caring nothing for their fellow countrymen will continue until a commander tells them to run away.It’s more than likely tho that any commander will tell them to fight to the last man in a tunnel while he personally escapes.

There will never be peace there.

Gazans generally ( not hamas and their many supporters ) must want the conflict to be at an end, and know that if the hostages were returned it could be over very soon.Aid would return and so could rebuilding.

In fact, what over 3,000 of hamas and supporters did in October 2023 a cold bloodied murderous spree targeting even infants would likely guarantee them a place in Hell, if you believe those things.

None of us know Gazans on a personal level, and I wouldn’t believe anyone if they said they did but the more educated Gazans can hardly believe that cutting throats or shooting of those they call unbelievers guarantees a place in Heaven.
If they did, well, what a religion!

escaped

Hamas could gain the moral high ground by releasing the hostages. That's all they have to do.
Then the rest of the world could justifiably criticise Israel's tactics.
But we're not talking about normal, reasonable people here. Hamas don't appear to want a starting point from which to go forward.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Oreo

growstuff

escaped

I understand that returning the hostages could potentially make things even worse for Palestinians, but when both sides are being so incredibly stubborn, even irrational, it's the only possible move forward I can think of.

The Israelis also need to keep to their side of the bargain to withdraw from Gaza. As you say, both sides are being stubborn. The real difference is that Israel has US military power and will be the inevitable winner. If I were a Gazan, I'd see no hope for the future and maybe the only hope I would have would be to die as a martyr.

If I were a Gazan? Surely you mean if I were a member of hamas?
I think intelligent Gazans realise that ‘dying as a martyr’ is bollocks in any case.

Really? How many do you know?

Oreo

growstuff

Jaberwok

As Golda Meir said 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, (and returned the hostages) there would be no more violence. If Israel put down its arms, there would be no more Israel.

I didn't believe that. In any case, Israel has moved on from the days of Golda Meir.

You didn’t believe that.Oh really!
As others say, if hamas chose to return the hostages, gave up and put on civilian clothes and melted into the background, it would all be over.Gaza could start to be rebuilt and lives go on.

No, I don't believe that for one moment.

growstuff

escaped

I understand that returning the hostages could potentially make things even worse for Palestinians, but when both sides are being so incredibly stubborn, even irrational, it's the only possible move forward I can think of.

The Israelis also need to keep to their side of the bargain to withdraw from Gaza. As you say, both sides are being stubborn. The real difference is that Israel has US military power and will be the inevitable winner. If I were a Gazan, I'd see no hope for the future and maybe the only hope I would have would be to die as a martyr.

If I were a Gazan? Surely you mean if I were a member of hamas?
I think intelligent Gazans realise that ‘dying as a martyr’ is bollocks in any case.

Oreo

growstuff

Anniebach

How can there be peace in Gaza ? Hamas rules Gaza , Palestinians voted them in

There are two sides to the story Anniebach, but you seem to have a permanent monocle, so you just block out the other side.

Pot, kettle?

Maybe you could explain what you're implying.

(PS. I doubt that you will, but you do like sniping.)

growstuff

Jaberwok

As Golda Meir said 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, (and returned the hostages) there would be no more violence. If Israel put down its arms, there would be no more Israel.

I didn't believe that. In any case, Israel has moved on from the days of Golda Meir.

You didn’t believe that.Oh really!
As others say, if hamas chose to return the hostages, gave up and put on civilian clothes and melted into the background, it would all be over.Gaza could start to be rebuilt and lives go on.

Jaberwok

As Golda Meir said 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, (and returned the hostages) there would be no more violence. If Israel put down its arms, there would be no more Israel.

Israel has the backing of the US and Gaza has been decimated with many killed so that won't happen.
Israel are taking more and more land from the Palestinians so the likelihood is that Israel will occupy Gaza.

growstuff

Anniebach

How can there be peace in Gaza ? Hamas rules Gaza , Palestinians voted them in

There are two sides to the story Anniebach, but you seem to have a permanent monocle, so you just block out the other side.

Pot, kettle?

Jaberwok

As Golda Meir said 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, (and returned the hostages) there would be no more violence. If Israel put down its arms, there would be no more Israel.

I didn't believe that. In any case, Israel has moved on from the days of Golda Meir.

As Golda Meir said 'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, (and returned the hostages) there would be no more violence. If Israel put down its arms, there would be no more Israel.

The loss of Gaza has begun.

Israel is intending to annex the first bit.

escaped

I understand that returning the hostages could potentially make things even worse for Palestinians, but when both sides are being so incredibly stubborn, even irrational, it's the only possible move forward I can think of.

The Israelis also need to keep to their side of the bargain to withdraw from Gaza. As you say, both sides are being stubborn. The real difference is that Israel has US military power and will be the inevitable winner. If I were a Gazan, I'd see no hope for the future and maybe the only hope I would have would be to die as a martyr.

Anniebach

How can there be peace in Gaza ? Hamas rules Gaza , Palestinians voted them in

It does seem as if in 2006 Hamas formed part of a coalition govt, suggesting that only half of Palestinians voted for them, then in 2097 Hamas took complete control from the Palestinians, showing quite clearly what Hamas are, I guess those who didn’t openly support them were dealt with very quickly and harshly.

I simply don’t believe children formed any part of this.

It’s an awful situation for both sides.

Aveline

I suspect the hostages are all dead - killed by Israeli attacks.

I suspect they are all dead too, but would wonder about by whom?

It does seem completely counter productive to keep on bombing the hell out of places where both Hamas and the hostages might be

No, killed by Hamas

I suspect the hostages are all dead - killed by Israeli attacks.

I understand that returning the hostages could potentially make things even worse for Palestinians, but when both sides are being so incredibly stubborn, even irrational, it's the only possible move forward I can think of.

escaped

Hamas could gain the moral high ground by releasing the hostages. That's all they have to do.
Then the rest of the world could justifiably criticise Israel's tactics.
But we're not talking about normal, reasonable people here. Hamas don't appear to want a starting point from which to go forward.

I don't think Hamas would gain the moral high ground. There's no escaping the fact of the October 2023 attack. However, Israel has lost any claim to moral high ground with its actions. It's like a Medieval power struggle.

I agree with ronib. Hamas would lose any negotiating card it has because Israel would walk into Palestine and take over. Hamas doesn't have much more to lose.

I agree. Giving the hostages back to Israel will be the end for the Palestinians. Netanyahu wants Gaza so does Trump. As the Palestinians have nowhere else to go the only way is to kill them all and this is happening.

I read that Hamas want a negotiating card so won’t give up the hostages or dead bodies. Once hostages are released, Israel can go ahead and boot them Palestinians out of their strip of land. From this argument, the hostages will never be released. Unsurprisingly a complete failure of trust. It’s hard to see a way out of this.
President Trump has not brokered a peace deal but signed a deal worth billions to rearm Israel. The waters have become very muddied.