Why resist it?

So if you identify a man as a man you can be investigated and reprimanded if he says he's a woman.
So basically in trouble for telling the truth.
Which one is lying? The one who calls a man a man or the man who says he's a woman.

a woman would be in trouble for asking a man why he was in the ladies toilets if he had said that day that he was now a woman (or vice versa)

I was asked my current preferred gender and my gender at birth.

This is disingenuous Cossy as there are ONLY two sexes. So at birth you are one or the other. That’s a fact. It’s not an assigned ‘gender’ as a baby! What rot.

We must stop letting this misspeak creep in.

Later in life, for those who don’t feel they align with their SEX then they may choose to become a different ‘gender’. Of which (farcically in my opinion) there are over one hundred to choose from.

JaneJudge

I imagine lots of us work in organisations where this is happening too but we are too frightened to say anything or even post anything on here for fear of losing our jobs and not being able to pay the mortgage

So much for ‘free speech’ eh?
Maybe Vance was right.

mum2three

It's hard to believe that all this is actually happening. A fully grown man can be regarded as a woman simply because he says he is. It's like something out of a comedy show.

I think the tide is very slowly turning on all this madness.

Historically there have always been people who have identified as man or woman when born otherwise:

There are also people posting on other threads in GN who have someone in the family who is trans and accept the situation as it is, the relative is "happy in their own skin". They dont appear on threads actively hostile to them - who would?

I have a trans friend of 70 who wouldn't dream of offending others in the ways often described on these threads. These people are not part of the "100 possible identities" or have any interest in harming others.

Please accept them as they are: of course no one should fear losing their jobs or feel threatened in the changing rooms, or expect to play sports as women if they are transwomen and so on. And great care needs to be taken society wise that no one is persuaded or able to get treatment who isnt really genuine.

Galaxy

The thing is I have never heard anyone able to describe gender identity without either going round in circles or relying on stereotypes from the 1930s.

It's a good point - I can recall so many discussions on this in the Womens Movement in the 1970's - what it meant to be brought up as a girl or boy and I don't think there absolutely clear definitions, as we are all so different, and there are cultural variations.

I think this is recent where transwomen have started using women's changing rooms. As you say Wyllow3 there have been transwomen for a very long time.

I think the transactivists have caused some to become more entitled and cause problems because they can. I have always thought the transactivists make life harder for decent trans people who like your friend would not want to offend anyone.

lots of them are just men though saying they are women, it's why being nice doesn't work but women have been silenced in workplaces because of all this
it is honestly a load of crap

Thats what I broadly feel, AGAA4.

You wouldn't actually know some trans people were born into the sex they were before they changed gender.

Legally we shouldn't/shouldnt have created situations where people are forced to accept threatening people, but that goes for other areas of life too

When I was growing up there was a woman clearly a woman who walked about in men's clothes, usually a baggy old suit and no one batted an eyelid.

We also had a man who walked around in cowboy clothes and no one batted an eyelid.

I came across my first 'tranny' in a ladies toilet in Tenerife in the late 70s. No eyelids were batted.

Now it seems we have to tick boxes in order to be seen as 'acceptable,' but to whom?

It's all gone a bit 'tit's up' hasn't it? Or maybe just a big 'cock-up,' too? Soon it will all die down one way or another...or maybe both ways?

Whatever, it is a kind of collective madness for sure.

No men can become women. At all. Everyone knows this.

You wouldn’t have known trans in the past, or probably cared if you suspected.

Who is responsible for the behaviour which brought TW into disrepute, damaging them and females?

The TW who cheated in sport, those who lied their way into female prisons, those who invaded female safe spaces like toilets or shelters, still behaving like the males they are. Those who demand that others lie, even about simple things like pronouns.
Those who deny the right of females to be cared for by females.
Those who deny lesbians the right to refuse to be intimate with TW etc, etc.
Those, or their supporters who threaten females who won’t accept them.

All those mentioned have made life difficult not only for females, but also for the trans constantly cited as “you wouldn’t know”.

But who gets the blame?

I read some awful stuff yesterday re some involved in Surrey pride etc but let’s carry on being nice

I don’t need to justify how I treat people, trans or otherwise as I treat everyone with the same respect. I’m incredibly concerned re safeguarding and how it is being ignored wrt to many issues surrounding this

Criminals have often used more than one identity, just recorded as also known as. Don't see why this would be any different. So Jane Jones AKA Simon Smith.

theworriedwell

Criminals have often used more than one identity, just recorded as also known as. Don't see why this would be any different. So Jane Jones AKA Simon Smith.

So you have no problem with Simon Smith, convicted of rape being put in a female prison because he says he’s AKA Jane Jones?

Thats not happening anymore. Firm rules were laid down February 23

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-transgender-prisoner-policy-comes-into-force#:~:text=At%20present%20more%20than%2090,is%20based%20purely%20on%20risk.

There are two sexes and only two sexes unless anyone has proof of the third gamete and the part it plays in sexual reproduction. That is the sole rationale of sexing individuals, the pathway they are designed to participate in, in sexual reproduction (whether or not their reproductive system works).
Their 'gender identity' or more accurately described as 'personality' is of zero scientific interest. Record everyone by their sex and be done with it. And there is no 'intersex', just people with DSDs that are very sex specific. All such DSDs are specific to either males or females, the two immutable sexes of 100% of mammals, whether human or other animal species.

That policy clearly says a certain type of special man will be allowed in the female estate.

Wyllow3

Historically there have always been people who have identified as man or woman when born otherwise:

There are also people posting on other threads in GN who have someone in the family who is trans and accept the situation as it is, the relative is "happy in their own skin". They dont appear on threads actively hostile to them - who would?

I have a trans friend of 70 who wouldn't dream of offending others in the ways often described on these threads. These people are not part of the "100 possible identities" or have any interest in harming others.

Please accept them as they are: of course no one should fear losing their jobs or feel threatened in the changing rooms, or expect to play sports as women if they are transwomen and so on. And great care needs to be taken society wise that no one is persuaded or able to get treatment who isnt really genuine.

The problem is that accepting people as they are is how we got here. People like your friend were accepted (rightly) and those with a sinister agenda jumped on that and started colonising women’s spaces shouting ‘be kind’ and ‘no debate’.

People like your friend have suffered as a result, but all too often don’t speak out for women - instead joining the ‘be kind’ lobby. Women, on the whole’ are kind. We are socialised from birth to put others first, and that ‘kindness’ has been used against us. It is not kind to refuse women the right to female-only spaces, and to tell children they are ‘in the wrong body’.

How can we have a situation where your friend has access to women’s spaces but other males don’t? If you can explain how that would work it would make acceptance easier. If your friend uses male loos and changing rooms etc, then it’s a different matter, but I suspect that’s not the case? I understand why your friend might not want to, but surely it’s obvious that there can’t be different rules based on who feels they are ‘genuine’ and who doesn’t appear to be so?

Galaxy

That policy clearly says a certain type of special man will be allowed in the female estate.

I’m curious to know how many TW are in female prisons because they committed their crime in their woman persona, but it didn’t damage females.

Mollygo

theworriedwell

Criminals have often used more than one identity, just recorded as also known as. Don't see why this would be any different. So Jane Jones AKA Simon Smith.

So you have no problem with Simon Smith, convicted of rape being put in a female prison because he says he’s AKA Jane Jones?

Where did I say anything about prisons?

I was commenting on this "who said previous convictions of criminals who have changed their legal sex are being overlooked by the police and courts because the crimes were committed under their original identity."

There is no reason why previous convictions should be overlooked because crimes were committed in their original identify. If you could just decide to have a new identity whether that is changing gender or changing your name the police wont just say fine if you say you are Moonbeam Sunshine we won't have a look to see if you have ever been convicted in your previous name of Fred Smith.

^ There is no reason why previous convictions should be overlooked because crimes were committed in their original identify^
There is indeed no reason, but pretending to be something you’re not in the hope that you can then claim discrimination or misgendering because you are classified as your true sexual identity is something that already goes on.

I definately don't agree with any children being allowed to identify as a different sex until they are 18. I know 3 trans people. One has had serious mental health issues since early childhood caused by an accident. They still had surgery on the NHS as an adult and now deeply regrets it. People who transition should be recognised as Trans male or Trans female, not a different sex imo. Your chronosomes are what sex you are and that can never change. A survey found approx 50% regret trans surgery, while up to 80% experienced pain from it 5 years later. The use of personal pronouns like they and them is totally rubbish imo. If you don't like your name change it by deed poll.

sazz1, I can't find any survey giving figures like that, the surveys available (from USA, cant find UK ones) give a very different picture.

I agree of course you cant change sex, this is recognised in the O/P report which flags up matters which do need addressing including any attempt to change names to evade prosecution.

That being said, I often find on threads like these page after page of negatives on and about transpeople, no role models of those who have led good and decent lives, and wish we could instead accept that some of our population are genuine trans and we need to find ways of living together as best we can.

I am also minded of the terrible incidents we also sometimes find like poor 16 year old Brianna Ghey, 16-year-old British transgender, who was stabbed 23 times in a vicious attack by teenagers who had a kill list on trans from the dark web.