Why resist it?

So if you identify a man as a man you can be investigated and reprimanded if he says he's a woman.
So basically in trouble for telling the truth.
Which one is lying? The one who calls a man a man or the man who says he's a woman.

I imagine lots of us work in organisations where this is happening too but we are too frightened to say anything or even post anything on here for fear of losing our jobs and not being able to pay the mortgage

It's hard to believe that all this is actually happening. A fully grown man can be regarded as a woman simply because he says he is. It's like something out of a comedy show.

wen = been

The world has wen turned on its head.

Will no-one in power shout out that The Emperor is wearing no clothes, naked as the day that he was born. And he's a man.

TerriBull

I meant to add it's the poor nurse who is now deemed "a danger to the public" not the other person who incidentally called the nurse the 'n' word 3 times. Reported in the DM online, sorry, not sorry, I've read enough articles by Hadley Freeman in the Sunday Times to know whose side the Guardian are on in such matters and why there is scant coverage in that publication when such issues arise.

that's disgusting

yeah, the whole no boys over 8 in the changing room even if they haven't got a man to go into the men's changing room with but men that look like men but say they are women are automatically allowed in biologically sex protected spaces. What kind of bonkers is this

I meant to add it's the poor nurse who is now deemed "a danger to the public" not the other person who incidentally called the nurse the 'n' word 3 times. Reported in the DM online, sorry, not sorry, I've read enough articles by Hadley Freeman in the Sunday Times to know whose side the Guardian are on in such matters and why there is scant coverage in that publication when such issues arise.

Firstly I read this today, a nurse who inadvertently mis- gendered a burly, 6ft male bodied person who is allegedly a paedophile to boot, she is being investigated because she called him Mr

As a side issue, sorry not NHS related, from a couple of weeks ago, Michelle Dewberry, GB Commentator went into the women's changing room at her club, Virgin Active only to find a man in there, that's how she described the person, so possibly a "transwoman" but evidently a man. She resigned her membership but after mealy mouthed obfuscation from Virgin Active replying to her along the lines of "the women's changing rooms are available to trans women and non binary people" but and here's the nonsense, when I was a member of a health club when my children were young, boys over the aged of 7 were turfed out and expected to go and change on their own in the men's locker room. I realise there has to be a cut off point somewhere with male children, but I was always a bit concerned sending my child off into unknown territory to get changed. Now it seems that anyone can roll up into women's changing rooms and be there, except young boys, identifying as young boys utter nonsense imo. I've been a member of various health clubs for years. Of course women never had to give any of this new phenomenon a thought, now all this vagueness about who can and can't access women only spaces focuses the mind somewhat. Whilst some may say that trans women have accessed women's loos for years, I don't doubt that, but whilst I don't agree they should be able to do that, it's far more alarming to have them in an actual changing room. There aren't always curtained off cubicles sometimes and often women and girl children are in a state of undress in the communal area. Michelle Dewberry, shouldn't have had to resign her membership, why should the onus be on women to accommodate male bodied people into what should be very private spaces?

The thing is I have never heard anyone able to describe gender identity without either going round in circles or relying on stereotypes from the 1930s.

I'm going with the report we are all discussing (I've copied a bit from the first page) which has made sensible suggestions imo

""The review, led by Alice Sullivan, a professor of sociology and research specialist at University College London, said guidance should be updated to make sure both sets of data were recorded in a clear and distinct way

What I’ve argued in this report is that sex is really important, we should be recording it by default – transgender and gender diverse identities can also be recorded where that’s appropriate

“There’s no reason to see this as a trade-off between the two. They’re two distinct variables.”

sounds sensible AGAA4

Do we really need the word 'gender.
It has caused a lot of problems in recent times
I believe at one time you were defined by being male female or
neuter.
I'm not saying that is right but it makes things easier if people retain the sex they were born with on any documents whatever way they want to live as an adult.

Doodledog

It's like some sort of collective madness.

Owen Jones was waffling on earlier (on Jeremy Vine) about how it was difficult for transmen to respond to invitations for cervical smears as they are aimed at women. Well, of course they are - women have cervixes, however they 'identify', and men do not. I don't see what's 'difficult' about that, but I'm a simple soul.

honestly wtf is going on.

In most organisations, including schools, they use the term gender to mean sex, it is some sort of weird embarrassment about the word sex.

rowyn

I think that we need some very clear PUBLIC education about the meaning of the words - sex and gender.
I suspect that many of the younger generation do not realise that there is a very big difference between the two words. ~

Hopefully most teachers of Sex education are teaching it correctly in school, but I fear that there will be a whole cohort where some teachers are biased and choose not to make the difference CRYSTAL clear. Head teachers and OFSTED too- s hould be monitoring this.
And it occurs to me that there is another cohort - those whose first language is not Emglish, and who will have no understanding of the difference.

The national curriculum - which is not optional on this in State Schools - does what you want it to do - this drawn up under the last year of the last government and not changed.

educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2024/05/new-rshe-guidance-what-it-means-for-sex-education-lessons-in-schools/#:~:text=Relationships%2C%20Sex%20and%20Health,pupils%20in%20state%2Dfunded%20schools.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I think that we need some very clear PUBLIC education about the meaning of the words - sex and gender.
I suspect that many of the younger generation do not realise that there is a very big difference between the two words. ~

Hopefully most teachers of Sex education are teaching it correctly in school, but I fear that there will be a whole cohort where some teachers are biased and choose not to make the difference CRYSTAL clear. Head teachers and OFSTED too- s hould be monitoring this.
And it occurs to me that there is another cohort - those whose first language is not Emglish, and who will have no understanding of the difference.

Owen Jones is an idiot who panders to all sorts of daftness. I can't buy the Guardian while they continue to employ him yet fire brilliant journalists like Suzanne Moore.

Are transmen going to be called for prostate testing?

After some thought I will say Yes to both you questions Mollygo

I don't seen the relevance in answer to your first question Mollygo but yes to your second.

The Gender Recognition Act 2004 which came into effect in April 2005 enabled someone to change their birth certificate to show their preferred gender, instead of their biological sex registered at birth.

I never thought this was right and seems to have been the thin end of the wedge.

Yes to the last two questions.

I’m sorry for all those who have been affected by the behaviour of a number of people using gender as an excuse for poor and damaging behaviour choices, e.g. cheating, or raping (male crime) then claiming to be a woman.

But that sympathy IMO is not an excuse to say I am what I say I am.

For health or medical treatment’s sake, recording the sex at birth makes sense, whether or not you are happy with your preferred gender.

In terms of criminal behaviour, accurate recording of the sex of the criminal is important to prevent the incarceration in the wrong prison or the opportunity of committing further crimes using the false claim.

If you never need medical treatment, commit crimes, cheat, or use your preferred gender to the detriment of others, then you could go through life without it being recorded.

Do you think it’s important for statistical purposes to know whether a person who voted, is a biological male or female?
Do you think it will be important for future records of births and deaths to have them recorded biologically accurately?

Galaxy

There is also a problem about blindingly accepting this idea of a gender identity. I don't have a gender identity. I have a sex, the rest is my personality.

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