Europe pathetic freeloaders

I remember Trump's supporters chanting, "Lock her up".

Wyllow3

As CNN says in an article,

It’s one of the most shocking national security indiscretions in years

"The revelation that President Donald Trump’s national security team discussed military strikes in Yemen on an unclassified group chat suggests a cavalier attitude toward America’s secrets and the safety of US forces on a deadly mission"

"The use of Signal, an encrypted app that is nonetheless carried on phones that are vulnerable to penetration by foreign intelligence services, also suggests contempt for strict laws on the handling of classified material that would land more junior officials in deep trouble.

“This was grossly negligent,” Ryan Goodman, a former Defense Department special counsel, told CNN’s Erin Burnett on Monday. “That is actually the terms of the criminal statute – ‘having gross negligence in mishandling classified information’ … if it is disclosed to somebody who is unauthorized. And on their call was a journalist. That means there was in fact a disclosure.”

*The lack of public contrition, let alone resignations, from top officials, reflects a White House that operates in a culture of impunity and has stacked the Justice Department and FBI – which might normally be expected to launch immediate investigations – with ultra-loyalists to the president*

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

what got me was the barefaced way that Trump denied any knowledge of this.. how can anyone negotiate with him.. even his own people must distrust him..

Rula

I'm now wondering if it was all deliberate.

I think that anything goes with the Trump government.

I wonder the same about it being deliberate.

And dare I whisper, we are freeloaders?
And have been for decades.

We used to say the the US are the police of the world.

See where we are without them. We cant even help Ukraine, in any significant way. And even then, we need US backing.

fancythat, you mean the kind of free loaders who followed the US into various conflicts after 9/11, losing our own armed forces, a price that cannot be quantified.
And the kind of freeloaders who assisted the US in their recent bombing of the Houthis with our very own RAF.
I don’t call that freeloading.

And don’t forget that we have USAF bases here for which the US pays little or no rent.

And Scotland has their nuclear subs. I remember in the 1960's being worried because we were in the epicentre of a nuclear strike. Then relations improved. Now it's time to worry again.

But it is good to actually know how they regard us. They made that very clear.

Babs03

fancythat, you mean the kind of free loaders who followed the US into various conflicts after 9/11, losing our own armed forces, a price that cannot be quantified.
And the kind of freeloaders who assisted the US in their recent bombing of the Houthis with our very own RAF.
I don’t call that freeloading.

If the US pay 90% of something, and Europe 10%, does that make Europe freeloaders?
I think it does.

Whichever way you look at it, we have so not paid our way.
And now thanks to Trump, it has been exposed just how weak we are.

I would suggest that in having military bases here rent-free the US are freeloaders. They can’t get away with that in the likes of Germany and Japan, where they have to pay hefty rents.

fancythat

Babs03

fancythat, you mean the kind of free loaders who followed the US into various conflicts after 9/11, losing our own armed forces, a price that cannot be quantified.
And the kind of freeloaders who assisted the US in their recent bombing of the Houthis with our very own RAF.
I don’t call that freeloading.

If the US pay 90% of something, and Europe 10%, does that make Europe freeloaders?
I think it does.

Whichever way you look at it, we have so not paid our way.
And now thanks to Trump, it has been exposed just how weak we are.

Fancythat, on what does the US pay 90% and Europe 10%?
Can you be clear what are you referring to?

Who is paying the price for wars and conflicts mainly started by the US? We are, in Europe, as refugees arrive.

The US has chosen to join -or start conflicts and pay what they did because it was believed it served US interests, not out of the "goodness of their heart".

So they've changed their mind (or not, as they are heavily involved in Israel/Iran/Yemen)
Their choice.

The US current tactic is passive aggressive - or direct - deliberate and arrogant belittling of former allies in their endeavours.

Its trying to destroy Europe as it best serves their interests for a US/Russian axis.

Freeloading is yet another insult that makes no sense.
I'm surprised anyone in the UK is prepared to tolerate this!

How much have we spent on Ukraine?
How much the US?

It spends 4% of it;s GDP on defence[as far as I know their GDP is vastly more than ours]
We spend 2.5% or thereabouts. On a smaller GDP.

Whatever I say on this subject, you would not agree with me anyway.
So I agree to differ with you.

Barleyfields

The leak was unbelievable. What an unprofessional shower they are, what a way to conduct the business of government. Definitely not to be trusted with our intelligence imho.

Oh I so agree!

It’s turning the clock back to the 1930s where the threat from Hitler was obvious yet we did not rearm to face it, the US was very reluctant to get involved, until Pearl Harbour.

Now Europe needs to face the threat from Russia alone, gearing up our own defence industries and recruitment, that’s going to be very unpopular and costly. We do need to be very cautious handling Trump, it’s imperative that NATO holds together because when Ukraine is settled any weakness is an invitation for a Russian attack on the Baltic states.

The idea that Trump is an enemy is very misplaced, for 10 yrs plus we are going to rely on the US for military support. The UK bases used by US are to back up NATO not to benefit them, do they really pay to use bases in Germany that seems strange to me.

Barleyfields

And don’t forget that we have USAF bases here for which the US pays little or no rent.

Quite!!! Valid point. I remember in the 1980's the demonstrations to get shot of THEIR Cruise missiles from our shores (ie making us a target in retaliation).

Not a happy bunny at all at the thought of us being used/abused as their "floating aircraft carrier". Blimmin' cheek of it....

As for the leaked conversation - I've only been involved in politics at lower level way back for some time and I've seen just how many "accidental on purpose mistakes" are made by the British government and civil service. I used to think "Britain is an inefficient nation (I can say that because I am British)" until I realised that quite a lot of it is deliberate inefficiency - ie rather than "person concerned is a useless idiot genuinely being inefficient - why did they employ that idiot?".

Deliberate inefficiency is a way my country operates sometimes - so I'm quite prepared to believe America also does "deliberate inefficiency" when it suits them to....and I think this was a set-up basically ("Whoops that's one way to tell the Europeans - and the British as well - just what we really think of them").

"Whoops....sorree.....butterfingers....".

No the US does not pay rent for German bases any more than it does in the UK. The US does pay for military infrastructure, often constructed by German companies, Germany provides much of the domestic infrastructure.

Although bases are secure military areas they are still national territory and can be asked to leave at any time, as happened in France some time ago

^ for 10 yrs plus we are going to rely on the US for military support. ^

Quite.
That is either conveniently forgotten, or a "well, Europe will have to go it alone".

Humph. Aint going to happen for a long time.

In fact, we are doing a bit of Ukraine, as in, we will go it alone. We dont need the US.

Well, we would then reap the consequences of that.

We need to be grateful for what the US has done, is doing, is paying for, and hopefully will keep doing.

I personally do not bite the hand that feeds me.
Or moan. Or worse, not even see what is happening.

“Not a happy bunny at all at the thought of us being used/abused as their "floating aircraft carrier". Blimmin' cheek of it....”

Nobody was saying that in 1940 Churchill was begging them to come.

It is disgusting that Trump and others are trying to discredit the journalist, Trump even publicly calling him a ‘sleaze bag’ and a ‘lowlife’, what a disgusting President he is. Now they know the narrative of it being the journalist’s fault won’t wash Waltz has finally accepted responsibility but is trying to suggest it was probably the fault of a junior member of staff, no ‘buck stops here any more’.

I have the sense he was talking about Europe excluding the UK. His knowledge is fairly limited and perhaps he thinks the UK is not in Europe. Just a thought. He probably thinks the UK is an offshore colony of the US together with Ireland.

nanna8

I have the sense he was talking about Europe excluding the UK. His knowledge is fairly limited and perhaps he thinks the UK is not in Europe. Just a thought. He probably thinks the UK is an offshore colony of the US together with Ireland.

I’m pretty sure the UK was included we have run down our defence budgets year by year just like most EU nations.

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

He’s a funny bugger,isn’t he?

Wyllow3

Trump claims (and it's remotely possible in the detail) he didn't know about the conversations. However, where does the buck stop?

Can you imagine it in the UK? Pressure to fire the equivalent of Hesketh would be immediate?

Trump claims (and it's remotely possible in the detail) he didn't know about the conversations. However, where does the buck stop?

If he didn't know then either he's more incompetent than we thought or they are deliberately excluding the POTUS which is sinister.

Babs03

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

They don't do anything for nothing.
They look for the main chance if they think there's something in it for them.