Europe pathetic freeloaders

@Allira,
Exactly. To suppose otherwise us to suppose every US administration has been too stupid for their own good.
Until this recent shower I would say that is impossible.

nanna8

I have the sense he was talking about Europe excluding the UK. His knowledge is fairly limited and perhaps he thinks the UK is not in Europe. Just a thought. He probably thinks the UK is an offshore colony of the US together with Ireland.

As my Dad used to say ‘many a true word is spoken in jest’ 🤭

Babs03

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

Absolutely. It's playing the Trump game to count only the money spent in retrospect

The US has only paid out whatever, at any given point, for what it considers in their own interests

And for a long, long time, it's been Russia and then of late the Middle East. US policy was to go in there and get involved boots on the ground. Iraq. Afghanistan, after 9/11 showed that they were vulnerable after all. Huge payments to certain countries in the Middle East.

Times have changed. It's now decided that Russia is no longer the enemy, its sort of bessie friends.
Ukraine has changed a lot.

Biden was following traditional alliances: Trump has decided to change them, but he still is keeping footholds in Europe and the Middle East.

I strongly resent the idea that because their policy has changed, Europe including ourselves should be liable for some kind of "back payments" or that we should bow in gratitude.

Trump ideology tries to change the cultural landscape with his declarations: he's doing it internally in the USA: threaten, bribe, whatever: we remain tactful, we address our defence needs according to changed situations, but we have no reason to grovel to the "pathetic freeloaders" rhetoric.

we address our defence needs according to changed situations

Well, we had better speed up quick.

Babs03

Am not going to put my head down and thank the US for paying whatever they have paid to Europe over the years. Trump can say what he likes but most if us know that the UK and Europe have housed US bases for a peppercorn rent and their weapons, as well as putting boots on the ground and lives on the line for various foreign escapades undertaken by the US.
The US has a history of paying for allies, call it a form of colonisation. At the moment they pay most Arab countries surrounding Israel and pay Israel more per annum than all of Europe and the UK put together.
This isn’t largesse, they have had their pound of flesh.

Well said!

nanna8

He’s a funny bugger,isn’t he?

No he isn’t.
Duplicitous, not particularly astute, self-seeking, misogynistic and blinkered- dangerous, definitely, but funny?
No.

It's not do long since free loading England helped the USA in Iraq ...Short memories?

And before this old chestnut is mentioned, money loaned to the UK after WW2 by the US was strictly a loan paid back in total in 2016.

Correction was paid back by 2006

Wyllow3

As CNN says in an article,

It’s one of the most shocking national security indiscretions in years

"The revelation that President Donald Trump’s national security team discussed military strikes in Yemen on an unclassified group chat suggests a cavalier attitude toward America’s secrets and the safety of US forces on a deadly mission"

"The use of Signal, an encrypted app that is nonetheless carried on phones that are vulnerable to penetration by foreign intelligence services, also suggests contempt for strict laws on the handling of classified material that would land more junior officials in deep trouble.

“This was grossly negligent,” Ryan Goodman, a former Defense Department special counsel, told CNN’s Erin Burnett on Monday. “That is actually the terms of the criminal statute – ‘having gross negligence in mishandling classified information’ … if it is disclosed to somebody who is unauthorized. And on their call was a journalist. That means there was in fact a disclosure.”

*The lack of public contrition, let alone resignations, from top officials, reflects a White House that operates in a culture of impunity and has stacked the Justice Department and FBI – which might normally be expected to launch immediate investigations – with ultra-loyalists to the president*

Horrendous negligent and mis-handling without a doubt.

An awful disgraceable governing body full of ignorance and problematic encounters at home in The Usa
and abroad.

The old ways, the "Truman doctrine" of working with Europe against common enemies has changed because the world situation has changed.

Yes, Europe does need to work on its defences and also re define the old order. Why not try to do it in a proper diplomatic way? what kind of democracy is treating its own citizens the way Trump is treating his own? His admiration for Putin says it all.

David49

No the US does not pay rent for German bases any more than it does in the UK. The US does pay for military infrastructure, often constructed by German companies, Germany provides much of the domestic infrastructure.

Although bases are secure military areas they are still national territory and can be asked to leave at any time, as happened in France some time ago

Agreed.

I suspect the US never pays much for land their forces occupy outside US.

Territory can be and is demanded back. Closing forces areas in Frankfurt and the airport building a terminal on land is an example.

RAF Fairford has runway/hangers for US bombers. Presumably they can fly from mid-America, land, fly beyond neutral spaces, conduct bombings, fly back to the UK. Important for military plans, I suppose.

I suppose we're impacted, to a small degree, by RAF - US forces at the few remaining locations in UK. I doubt the impact is negative, apart from the impact on those who are uprooted to live here.

Babs03

And before this old chestnut is mentioned, money loaned to the UK after WW2 by the US was strictly a loan paid back in total in 2016.

They always want something.

The loan was repaid and they kept war off their shores.

I may be naive, but I think Europe, including UK, are quietly making alliances and plans behind the scenes. I think diplomats will be very busy and scenarios will be discussed. Of course, on the surface they are playing nicely with USA but they will be preparing for any eventuality.

fancythat

^we address our defence needs according to changed situations^

Well, we had better speed up quick.

We won't see anything until it is presented to us as a done thing, or there is legislation to make it so. I am sure that below the surface of the water, the swan's feet are paddling furiously, though to an observer it seems to glide across the water without making a lot of ripples.

The reason the US pays Egypt, Jordan and others to a lesser extent is to control terrorists and leave Israel alone, the best paid jobs in both countries are army officers, both are military dictatorship.
Without that terrorists would have closed the Suez Canal and all the oil fields in the Middle East. Probably Israel would have used its nuclear weapons wiped few cities out killing millions. It would have affected US interests but it would have affected Europe to a much greater extent.

Yes we paid the war loan off in 2006 it was very low interest 2%? very advantageous to keep it going when our domestic interest rate was 10 or 15%.

I don’t like Trumps style of politics but for the next 4 yrs we have to live with it, he ain’t going away.

If you put a clown in charge it's likely you'll have a circus - Trump is delusional a Russian asset (or ass depending upon your poist of view), surrounded by yes men so they create nothing but chaos. I hope Greenland forbids entry to the bully boy Vance and wife. I doubt this lot could organise a p*ss up in a brewery but the rest of the world has to live with the consequences their chaos causes.

Grandmabatty

I may be naive, but I think Europe, including UK, are quietly making alliances and plans behind the scenes. I think diplomats will be very busy and scenarios will be discussed. Of course, on the surface they are playing nicely with USA but they will be preparing for any eventuality.

I believe this will be the case. European leaders including Starmer will be having emergency talks on a regular basis regarding Ukraine and the defence of Europe, not only against Putin but now against our erstwhile ally the US.

The UK and Europe need to concentrate on acquiring the weapons and defence systems that the US have. It will take time but we are no match for Russia now and I believe if Russia does attack there will be no help from the US.

Grandmabatty

I may be naive, but I think Europe, including UK, are quietly making alliances and plans behind the scenes. I think diplomats will be very busy and scenarios will be discussed. Of course, on the surface they are playing nicely with USA but they will be preparing for any eventuality.

Yes.

silverlining48

I think it shows what our supposed special friends actually think of us, as well as joking about people who woukd be killed and their crass stupidity in not realising a journalist there.

This. I cringe every time I hear a British politician mention 'the special relationship' as I have relatives in America, and I know that if you use the phrase there people look at you in utter bemusement - it means absolutely nothing to them.

fancythat

Rula

I'm now wondering if it was all deliberate.

I think that anything goes with the Trump government.

I wonder the same about it being deliberate.

And dare I whisper, we are freeloaders?
And have been for decades.

We used to say the the US are the police of the world.

See where we are without them. We cant even help Ukraine, in any significant way. And even then, we need US backing.

If the UK hadn’t invented the Tank, America couldn’t have supplied them.
If the uk hadn’t invented the internet Elon Musk couldn’t have helped Ukraine with communications.
If the UK hadn’t invented the Television Trump wouldn’t have been able to spout his shite to the world.

It is such a shame that our friendly ally is no more.
We need to treat the USA as a potential enemy.
Do not visit the USA. Do not support the American economy.

petra!! 😀

Perhaps if these idiots had used Bacon's cipher the messages might have remained secret 😁
The telescope - where would NASA be without Newton?

The Americans did invent chocolate chip cookies, thank you America.

SueDoku

silverlining48

I think it shows what our supposed special friends actually think of us, as well as joking about people who woukd be killed and their crass stupidity in not realising a journalist there.

This. I cringe every time I hear a British politician mention 'the special relationship' as I have relatives in America, and I know that if you use the phrase there people look at you in utter bemusement - it means absolutely nothing to them.

Doesn't it depend who you ask? Ie just like in UK, awareness of politics and history differ greatly.