According to Angela Rayner 'Working class people do not want "handouts" but support to find jobs.'

Blimey! I did not know there is a socio economic classification system which class people from A to E like the railway carriages.

Not surprising though. I saw a vintage sign online from British Steam Railway which I wanted to buy because it thought it was so funny.

The sign says “This is the FIRST CLASS TOILET. The second class toilet is off the edge of platform 3. Penalty 2 1/2 shillings. By Order."

I am going to stick the sign on the door of my outside toilet.

I, personally believe the class system is still alive in the UK today. There is so much snobbery with the Russell Group universities which are considered 1st class, compared to the new universities – former polytechnics, which is considered 2nd class by some Granetters, and I daresay, some people.

Iam64

Ahem - I know a plumber aged 27 who was, to coin a phrase, dragged up by a substance abusing mum, his dad having disappeared. His partner is from a working class family, no one went to art galleries or read or stayed on at school.
She’s a graphic designer. They go to museums, art galleries , concerts and recently did a 3 week tour of Japan, all organised by themselves. They’ve also just bought their first house. A spacious ex council house, those good family homes built in the 50’s
So does their lifestyle mean they’re heading for middle class status. Oh yes, Labour voters though green leaning 😏

Hope she doesn't think about wearing a green trouser suit!

eazybee

^That’s why late Victorian and Edwardian Aristocrats were falling over themselves to bag a wealthy ‘new money’ American heiress? hmm. Of course, they were rather vulgar gels, but all those dollars made them palatable.^

I suggest you read The Portrait of a Lady' Maizie D.

Try The Bucaneers, eazybee. And reading some actual history of the era...

How many of our current 'elite' rose from the 'ranks' over the course of the 19th & 20th C?

Whenever I hear anyone waxing lyrical about the Aristocracy I think about how they originally got their wealth and power and what they did to sustain it. Usually it's not a very pleasant story, steeped in treachery, slavery and through the blood, sweat and tears of the "lowest" classes, who were paid a pittance to work in unsafe conditions.

My paternal gran was put into service at the big house aged 12. She hated it, ran away with her sister from Coventry to those dark satanic mills in the north west where her now large extended family still live.
Rather a 12 hour shift in the mill than 24/7 at the big house

foxie48

Whenever I hear anyone waxing lyrical about the Aristocracy I think about how they originally got their wealth and power and what they did to sustain it. Usually it's not a very pleasant story, steeped in treachery, slavery and through the blood, sweat and tears of the "lowest" classes, who were paid a pittance to work in unsafe conditions.

Haven’t seen anyone waxing lyrically on here about the aristocracy, just being realistic and acknowledging that it still exists here in the U.K.

My comment was a general one, not aimed at you or anyone else on this forum, GG13 Yes, it definitely still exists and they don't all have "class" or good manners, some are complete boors despite their privileged background!

I think it's fair to say that there are different groups in society, with different norms and values which tend to be taught in the home and at school. The problem comes when people insist on seeing some as better than others. I find the idea that someone can 'make good' by moving from one group to another offensive, as there are good and bad (and indifferent) facets of all the groups, and none are intrinsically better or worse than others.

There is a problem when some see themselves better than others

Doodledog when I refer to someone making good I think of someone who has overcome adversity, be that a disability, a troubled home life, etc.,

Most people need a goal to aim for, which is usually upwards, seldom do you hear of someone deliberately aiming lower.

Indeed.

GrannyGravy13

Unfortunately people can dress in designer clothes, eat and be seen at the in places due to having £££’s, but there is absolutely no mistaking class (i.e. the landed gentry, old money etc)

There is far more to class than having money, class is something you cannot buy, it is something you are born with.

I have posted this before.

My DD was nanny to a family in London.

I met her employer, very charming and pleasant, but definitely ‘posh’, and as for ‘class’….

I said to my daughter, “If ‘H’ lost all her money, and was forced to move into a council house, penniless and jobless, she would still have ‘class’ and ‘breeding’. It was just there and could not be taken away from her”.

Calendargirl
I know exactly what you mean, we know someone like that.

Just seen this painted on a wall in Covent Garden:

‘The difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves but how she is treated’.

Eliza Doolittle

To steal from Groucho Marx, I wouldn’t want to join a club that accepted me as a member😂

You can have 'class' wherever you are born and regardless of wealth. 'Class' is about dignity, poise, refinement and depth of character with a true set moral compass.
I have encountered some utter trashy behaviour and language from people born to significant wealthy backgrounds. I've also encountered real 'class' from people born in chronically demanding situations.
'Breeding' has nothing to do with it - you are definitely not 'born with it' as it's not genetic any more than' blue blood' exists.

Galaxy

Sorry when I say the 'elite' class I generally mean the vocal middle class, who are ever present in the universities, the media, politics, and whose views rarely reflect the views of the 'ordinary' people. The two groups struggle to understand the others perspective. So when I say elites I don't really mean the Boris Johnsons of this world.

That attitude was very much in evidence in the buildup to the referendum on GN.
Reading those members posts in recent threads nothing has changed.

Anniebach

There is a problem when some see themselves better than others

Just to add to StoneofDestiny's post, it's also much easier to be gracious etc when you are surrounded by the trappings of privilege and given the confidence that comes with going to an expensive school etc much harder is your life is one of constant struggle.

foxie48

Anniebach

There is a problem when some see themselves better than others

Just to add to StoneofDestiny's post, it's also much easier to be gracious etc when you are surrounded by the trappings of privilege and given the confidence that comes with going to an expensive school etc much harder is your life is one of constant struggle.

Exactly so foxie48. To bring my grannie back in to this, she had class, despite leaving school at 1l, going into service and running off to be an independent mill girl
She was calm, kind, genuine and ever polite, ‘well mannered’ and hugely proud her son (my dad) built a successful career, her pride in her grandchildren knew no bounds.
Much more class than the hurray Henry’s I saw drunk/abusing police and generally being oaf, we saw at the Badminton horse trials

“'Breeding' has nothing to do with it - you are definitely not 'born with it' as it's not genetic any more than' blue blood' exists.”

LOL

There are a few aristocrats with brains. Inbreeding has reduced the gene pool considerably, their main asset is money carefully hidden from taxation. Breeding doesn’t cut any ice these days you have to “perform” to succeed, clever professionals help them continue.

70% of the land in the UK is owned by 1% of the population, the Duke of Westminster inherited an estate worth about £9billion. When you have £ like that you don't need brains fwiw little or no inheritance tax was paid on the estate as it was protected by trusts.

David49

“'Breeding' has nothing to do with it - you are definitely not 'born with it' as it's not genetic any more than' blue blood' exists.”

LOL

There are a few aristocrats with brains. Inbreeding has reduced the gene pool considerably, their main asset is money carefully hidden from taxation. Breeding doesn’t cut any ice these days you have to “perform” to succeed, clever professionals help them continue.

Oh David49, either you’re having a laugh or you don’t know anything about how the class system actually operates in the UK and Europe. Which one of those is it?

Coming from so called 'working class' families, DH likewise, who have done very well in life based on our (state) education and hard work, my experience accords with David49 ^Breeding doesn’t cut any ice these days you have to “perform” to succeed, clever professionals help them continue.

I experienced several non-performing so called 'upper class' people going nowhere or being made redundant because they were not up to scratch compared with other people.

It’s just not true to say that though Monica. Some families carry weight, they are on committees, they run charities, they dominate their local social scenes, they organise events - and they work as a pack, getting each other jobs, supporting each others children. They are the desired presence on other peoples invite lists. The old saying ‘It’s not what you know, it’s who you know’ is as prevalent as it ever was. You must live in a very close knit group if you don’t see these influences around you.

I am sorry Casdon, I do not live in a very close knit group.

I live in the south east, for most of the time in and about a large town. DH and I have/had our various and different interests, including political, we joined groups, at various times we were on committees, we mixed with people at all levels of society.

At no time in any circumstance have either of us ever been asked our antecedents. Our friends includeded a military friend whose father was a hospital cleaner, went to Sandhurst, had a successful career, did community service on retiring and was a awarded an OBE, as indeed was my grandfather, born illegitimate and a catholic, the son of a mill worker, in late 19th century Ulster. He came through the ranks to be a commissioned officer in the Royal Artillery.

Talk to almost any professional person these days and you will find that one of their their parents, grandparents or great grandparents were manual workers, skilled or not,

That even applies to the Princess of Wales.