Now Trump is targeting the U.K. with tarriffs how should Sir Keir handle a response?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Surely freedom of speech IS important? Many think it is surreptitiously being eroded in the UK and some countries don’t even tolerate it! Nudging democracy along can only be a force for good.

Freedom of speech is important and the UK is a democracy. Could you tell me why Meta in the USA, have forbidden Times Radio to interview Sarah Wynn Williams the author of “Careless People”, please?

Lovetopaint037

So at last we know the U.K. is not special and we are being subjected to crippling tariffs. Therefore what should Sir Keir do? I’m thinking of some kind of retaliation.,

What he decides reasonable and responsible. He has far more access to information and guidance than I do so my opinion would be of little value. As we learn more an opinion may develop, but I still doubt Stsrmer would listen to me. Indeed, I hope he wouldn't.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Surely freedom of speech IS important? Many think it is surreptitiously being eroded in the UK and some countries don’t even tolerate it! Nudging democracy along can only be a force for good.

I assume you a still swallowing the trope that America is the "land of the free".

PoliticsNerd

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Surely freedom of speech IS important? Many think it is surreptitiously being eroded in the UK and some countries don’t even tolerate it! Nudging democracy along can only be a force for good.

I assume you a still swallowing the trope that America is the "land of the free".

It's certainly not free in the US when people take legal action against being libelled. I could be wrong, but it strikes me that people in the US sue others for the slightest thing. Maybe "free speech" is a conspiracy by lawyers to get people to mouth off, so the injured parties seek legal representation.

Wyllow3

Its OK. She's said, In real life there are safeguards.

The women protected going to the abortion clinic,

the staff, parents and governors of the school undergoing criminal levels of harassment,

the public, against politicians using a WhatsApp group to mock citizens,

of emotional domestic abuse not previously recognised as criminal

and so on.

There wouldn't need to be safeguards, if people didn't stubbornly and arrogantly believe they have a right to absolute free speech.

Incidentally, I read an article about the woman who was arrested for harassing her child's primary school. It was in the Jewish Times and stressed that the woman is Jewish. I'm puzzled about why her religion is relevant. Is the implication that she was being unfairly targeted because she's Jewish?

Of course, the paper has every right to state what her religion is, but AFAIK it's not the slightest bit relevant.

Hmm! There seems to be more to this story than originally reported. The father works for Times Radio, is a LibDem councillor and is a former governor of the school. He has already been warned about harassment and asked to take his child away from the school, as schools are able to do.

The allegedly malicious messages were about the school's recruitment process. I don't know all the details, but it looks as though the father has some kind of personal grudge and is milking the incident for everything by reframing it as a free speech issue.

growstuff

PoliticsNerd

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Surely freedom of speech IS important? Many think it is surreptitiously being eroded in the UK and some countries don’t even tolerate it! Nudging democracy along can only be a force for good.

I assume you a still swallowing the trope that America is the "land of the free".

It's certainly not free in the US when people take legal action against being libelled. I could be wrong, but it strikes me that people in the US sue others for the slightest thing. Maybe "free speech" is a conspiracy by lawyers to get people to mouth off, so the injured parties seek legal representation.

Libel or Slander will get you in trouble in the UK as in the US defaming someone without justification cannot be defended

David49

growstuff

PoliticsNerd

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Surely freedom of speech IS important? Many think it is surreptitiously being eroded in the UK and some countries don’t even tolerate it! Nudging democracy along can only be a force for good.

I assume you a still swallowing the trope that America is the "land of the free".

It's certainly not free in the US when people take legal action against being libelled. I could be wrong, but it strikes me that people in the US sue others for the slightest thing. Maybe "free speech" is a conspiracy by lawyers to get people to mouth off, so the injured parties seek legal representation.

Libel or Slander will get you in trouble in the UK as in the US defaming someone without justification cannot be defended

But but but it's free speech!

Look - Starmer (and all the other world leaders) are dealing with a nutter - they have to tread thoughtfully. If they start engaging in the sort of knee-jerk behaviour that is Trump's calling card then we surely are all sunk. The politics of the playground will rule on the world stage and that way lies chaos.

Lovetopaint037

So at last we know the U.K. is not special and we are being subjected to crippling tariffs. Therefore what should Sir Keir do? I’m thinking of some kind of retaliation.,

Two fingers?🤬

Jane112

Trump doesn't understand the concept of pragmatism, if a UK/US trade deal is agreed it will be a disaster, Starmer will view it as a great victory but Trump will continue to add condition after condition, he'll want the NHS privatised under US control, he'll demand a say over employment law in the UK, he'll insist on tax breaks for all US companies and on and on it will go, every time he disagrees with the UK government he'll threaten the deal. Why on earth can Starmer not see that the deal with Canada meant absolutely nothing when Canada refused to become the 51st state?

I wouldn't assume all you have at all.

Why not see what can be done without unacceptable T's and C's. If there isnt one, drop the idea.

I cant see any retaliation that would be effective and not make things worse but am open to ideas...

growstuff

Hmm! There seems to be more to this story than originally reported. The father works for Times Radio, is a LibDem councillor and is a former governor of the school. He has already been warned about harassment and asked to take his child away from the school, as schools are able to do.

The allegedly malicious messages were about the school's recruitment process. I don't know all the details, but it looks as though the father has some kind of personal grudge and is milking the incident for everything by reframing it as a free speech issue.

That is a lot more than reported!

“But but but it's free speech!”

So you think it’s entirely acceptable to tell outright lies about someone else.

Original report I was working from
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/29/parents-arrested-by-hertfordshire-police-for-complaining-about-daughters-school#:~:text=The%20Times%20reported%20that%20Allen,their%20daughter%2C%20who%20is%20disabled.

Oreo

Lovetopaint037

So at last we know the U.K. is not special and we are being subjected to crippling tariffs. Therefore what should Sir Keir do? I’m thinking of some kind of retaliation.,

Two fingers?🤬

The UK has always had a import Tarriff of 10% on US cars to protect our car industry

Now Trump has applied a reciprocal Tariff, yet that is called protectionism - weve been doing it for decades!.

Are the UK/US tariffs proposed by the US exactly like for like, David?

Wyllow3

growstuff

Hmm! There seems to be more to this story than originally reported. The father works for Times Radio, is a LibDem councillor and is a former governor of the school. He has already been warned about harassment and asked to take his child away from the school, as schools are able to do.

The allegedly malicious messages were about the school's recruitment process. I don't know all the details, but it looks as though the father has some kind of personal grudge and is milking the incident for everything by reframing it as a free speech issue.

That is a lot more than reported!

It has been reported if you delve a bit deeper than the reporting from a handful of media. It's all there - and more. The local press is particularly informative. The father claimed that the malicious WhatsApp messages were just "a bit of banter". Ironically, he's now being subjected "banter" in the local press.

Wyllow3

Are the UK/US tariffs proposed by the US exactly like for like, David?

Reciprocal will be, we will find out tomorrow the detail.

Churchview

"there is no blackmail here, every business has the right to choose who they deal with.
Articulating why they are acting the way they do isn't threatening anyone.

Obama lecturing us on voting the way he wanted or there would be consequences is more representative of blackmail."

Isn't this exactly the same? The US are saying apply your laws the way we want or there will be consequences?

Yes what you say makes sense.

They both look like the same thought process in action.

The last I read the Business Secretary has denied the report. Or so some say. So may be redundant anyway.

David49

“But but but it's free speech!”

So you think it’s entirely acceptable to tell outright lies about someone else.

No, of course I don't, but I think you're missing the point. However, if you believe in free speech, there's nothing to stop anybody from giving an opinion about any other person. For example, I detest a certain politician whom other people seem to think is some kind of hero. I disagree with this person almost every time he opens his mouth, but if I were to make persistent derogatory claims, without actually lying, I'd probably be cautioned. But - hey! - I have the right to free speech don't I?

While there is no general right to free speech in the UK, since 1998, freedom of expression is guaranteed according to Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, as applied in British law through the Human Rights Act 1998. Freedom of expression is limited by our free speech law which protect national security, territorial integrity (the borders of the state) or public safety and prevent disorder or crime.

I would say the couple concerned need to speak to the free speech union and go from there. The police have got in wrong in many many other cases, and the free speech union has some degree of success in these incidents.

Galaxy

I would say the couple concerned need to speak to the free speech union and go from there. The police have got in wrong in many many other cases, and the free speech union has some degree of success in these incidents.

They have already been released with no charge. I suspect there's much more to the whole story than denial of free speech. The police did exactly what they were supposed to do.

It doesn't really matter what you suspect growstuff. I hope they get some good advice. As I say the police have got this wrong quite a lot previously, no idea whether that is the case in this incident. Organisations are receiving very hefty fines for getting it wrong on freedom of speech, it will keep happening until it dawns on organisations that the cost for errors in regard to control of speech is very high.

Galaxy

It doesn't really matter what you suspect growstuff. I hope they get some good advice. As I say the police have got this wrong quite a lot previously, no idea whether that is the case in this incident. Organisations are receiving very hefty fines for getting it wrong on freedom of speech, it will keep happening until it dawns on organisations that the cost for errors in regard to control of speech is very high.

I know what I've read Galaxy. It's absolutely clear this is not primarily about free speech. They weren't arrested for what they said, but for harassment. The man has a public role and works in the media, so is good at self-publicising. He's a former governor at the school and this sounds like a personal attack against the other governors. They had already been visited by the police and banned from being on the school premises and had been asked to take their child away from the school. Schools don't act like that unless something very serious has happened.

Something similar happened years ago at a school where I was working. A parent was disgruntled about something and repeatedly came into school and shouted at people. Eventually, he was banned from the premises, so started bad-mouthing a number of named individuals on social media, so he was issued with a Cease and Desist Order, which he ignored. The school had no alternative but to call in the police, who took him in for questioning. In this case, he was actually charged with threatening behaviour. The school, of course, couldn't defend itself in public until after the hearing and it the whole business caused a great deal of stress to pupils, parents and staff.

More close to home, somebody I know very well is currently being attacked on social media for fabrication of evidence in his books and "owning" a company which has made hundreds of thousands of pounds from the fabricated evidence. I know for a fact it isn't true. When challenged, the attacker claims she has the right to free speech and can say what she wants. She has also targeted a few other people and there is a danger their reputation will be affected. She hides behind social media, but her posts are gaining an audience. I'm not going to write much more because we're closing in on her and when we do, there will be legal action. People do not have the right to say what they want in public without dealing with the repercussions.