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Now Trump is targeting the U.K. with tarriffs how should Sir Keir handle a response?

(627 Posts)
Lovetopaint037 Tue 01-Apr-25 02:30:29

So at last we know the U.K. is not special and we are being subjected to crippling tariffs. Therefore what should Sir Keir do? I’m thinking of some kind of retaliation.,

MaizieD Thu 03-Apr-25 09:39:52

I think Trump isn’t keen on the EU. They’ve charged higher tariffs than us for years (protectionist, much?) and so he’s applying ‘reciprocal tariffs’ accordingly.

Well, that depends on how you present it, doesn't it. According to Murphy (quoted below) the EU doesn't charge tariff on all imports from the US.

The problem with the chart is that it is complete nonsense. Trump has made up numbers and then halved them, and called them the US tariff rate.

For example, the average tariff rate in the EU on US imports is around three per cent, because such charges apply to so few products. That's it. In other words, a reciprocal tariff of three per cent might have been justified. Such tariffs already exist.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2025/04/03/will-the-uk-fall-into-trumps-trap/

MayBee70 Thu 03-Apr-25 09:43:09

Churchview

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Well 10% for the UK, 20% for the EU.
Put that on the side of a bus. 😁

Makes you wonder what he wants from the UK in return.

It can't just be tea with the King can it?

Our NHS for starters…

David49 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:07:38

For some reason Trump has a problem with our VAT rates that I can’t understand, they don’t discriminate against US goods they apply to all goods, in the same way state sales taxes apply in the US.
VAT is generally higher than US sales tax why doesn’t he like it

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:14:21

Churchview

According to Trump's piece of cardboard - Vietnam apply 90% tariffs. That can't be right can it?

I just can't get over the cardboard list. It's just a random list - not in any order and why on card in this technological age? It's like they gave the job to the office junior and it was the best they could manage.

I think it was in alphabetical order? Must have another look.
Cambodia (are they a Communist country?) impose 97% tariffs on American goods. One of the Asian (rice producing countries) impose a 700% tariffs on USA rice.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:19:24

Today’s Telegraph:

“Matthew Lynn
02 April 2025 10:45pm BST

We have not seen much in the way of deregulation. Nor have we signed many blockbuster trade deals. And yet for anyone who is still wondering what the benefits were of Brexit, we now have a decisive answer. It has allowed the UK to escape the worst of Donald Trump’s tariff wars — and in the medium term that could pay extraordinary dividends.

As he unveiled his global tariffs at the White House, the UK was mercifully low down on the list. It wasn’t quite the “nul points” we often get at Eurovision, but our exporters will only face a 10 per cent levy on everything they sell into the US. It was less than much of the rest of the world. And perhaps most importantly, it was only half the 20 per cent imposed on the EU.

Sure, that will still hurt. The United States is our single biggest export market, and the levies will depress demand. Even so, there is no question that we have been let off relatively lightly.

And we can thank Brexit for that — for three reasons. First, if we were still part of the bloc, or even the Customs Union as hardcore Remainers would like us to be, we would be facing an immediate 20 per cent tariff rate, twice as high as we now will.

Next, the EU will almost certainly start a pointless tit for tat tariff war. It will impose retaliatory tariffs, prompting another round of higher levies from the White House, until tariffs hit 40 or 50 per cent on both sides. Inside the EU, we would have no choice but to go along with that. Instead Sir Keir Starmer and his Chancellor Rachel Reeves should be able to see that there is no point in trying to humiliate Trump or force him to back down. It won’t work. Our tariffs will stay at 10 per cent and we may even be able to negotiate them even lower or eliminate them completely, something the EU will find impossible.

Finally, it will mean British industry now has a clear competitive advantage over the rest of Europe. For Americans, a Scotch will be cheaper than Cognac, and Burberry cheaper than Hermes, but still with a luxury feel. Even better, there will now be a powerful incentive for EU manufacturers to ramp up production in the UK when they are selling products into the US. They will face lower tariffs while still manufacturing in Europe. A few may even move completely.

Of course, the tariffs will still damage the global economy. In effect, they are a huge tax increase, and one that will be paid by American consumers. They will leave the international economy in far worse shape than it was. Even so, the UK has clearly escaped relatively lightly. We might even be better off. And we have our departure from the EU to thank for that.”

An interesting read.
Sorry for the long post but it’s behind a paywall so I’ve cut & paste instead of providing a link, for those interested.

Of course just scroll past if you’re not!

growstuff Thu 03-Apr-25 10:29:33

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Churchview

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Well 10% for the UK, 20% for the EU.
Put that on the side of a bus. 😁

Makes you wonder what he wants from the UK in return.

It can't just be tea with the King can it?

I think Trump isn’t keen on the EU. They’ve charged higher tariffs than us for years (protectionist, much?) and so he’s applying ‘reciprocal tariffs’ accordingly.

I don’t blame him.

That's just childish. The end result of reciprocal tariffs will be that the American consumers will pay more.

ayse Thu 03-Apr-25 10:36:53

James O’Brian is suggesting Keir is doing the only thing he can do. Sit on the fence and hope it all falls apart.

As a consumer and current Apple user, I’m seriously thinking I will not replace them with like. Instead, I’ll buy a Fairphone (Dutch and repairable) for calls and a random pad. I’ll be able then to download my photos and save them to a hard drive. I’m also going to use Prime less and EBay etc. more. I’ve long thought we don’t have a special relationship with USA.

I wish our governments would support British industry rather than selling them off. We need to invest in the UK

mokryna Thu 03-Apr-25 10:41:15

It has been said that these tariffs have been decide by a ChatBox calculation.
Those countries which export the most have the highest tariffs, eg Vietnam, therefore, the UK which does not export much to the US has a lower one

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:41:27

The end result of reciprocal tariffs will be that the American consumers will pay more

But what’s the alternative as far as America is concerned?
Just continue in being taken for a ride? Have you seen the size of some of these global protectionist tariffs? They are eye watering to say the least.

Surely no one can blame Trump from saying ‘enough’?
I don’t think it’s childish.
I think he’s just had enough.

Remember, these are reciprocal tariffs!

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:42:16

mokryna

It has been said that these tariffs have been decide by a ChatBox calculation.
Those countries which export the most have the highest tariffs, eg Vietnam, therefore, the UK which does not export much to the US has a lower one

Overall yes.
But the UK exports more to America than say Europe.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:43:10

Yes talking about phones. The U.K. has always been a real leader in technology and we’re a real leader in phone technology but we lose out because we sell off the phone companies and the engineers bugger off to places like Silicon Valley.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:45:28

FriedGreenTomatoes2

mokryna

It has been said that these tariffs have been decide by a ChatBox calculation.
Those countries which export the most have the highest tariffs, eg Vietnam, therefore, the UK which does not export much to the US has a lower one

Overall yes.
But the UK exports more to America than say Europe.

Incorrect - the U.K. exports by far and away more to the EU than it does to anywhere else. As an individual country, the U.K. exports and imports most to the USA.

pascal30 Thu 03-Apr-25 10:46:01

ayse

James O’Brian is suggesting Keir is doing the only thing he can do. Sit on the fence and hope it all falls apart.

As a consumer and current Apple user, I’m seriously thinking I will not replace them with like. Instead, I’ll buy a Fairphone (Dutch and repairable) for calls and a random pad. I’ll be able then to download my photos and save them to a hard drive. I’m also going to use Prime less and EBay etc. more. I’ve long thought we don’t have a special relationship with USA.

I wish our governments would support British industry rather than selling them off. We need to invest in the UK

I agree with you about British Industry ayse.. and about buying European goods..

However I think that Starmer is actually being cleverly strategic as behoves his legal background.. I don't for one minute think he is doing nothing..

Whitewavemark2 Thu 03-Apr-25 11:06:21

Trump governs by mega-phone.

Starmer doesn’t.

Starmer said at the time of the election, that he would carry on the work of government quietly and efficiently and without the need to proselytise or give constant updates as Trump does.

It is a more grown up form of government imo.

Saying that, judging by some comments, I do think that Starmer needs to re-think his PR.

Wyllow3 Thu 03-Apr-25 11:16:38

FGT - in the words of what you have just quoted

"Of course, the tariffs will still damage the global economy. In effect, they are a huge tax increase, and one that will be paid by American consumers. They will leave the international economy in far worse shape than it was". Is this good?

Secondly, as pointed out above, the EU did not impose 20% tariffs on all goods as Trumps suggested. It depended. His "menu" was crude and misleading.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Thu 03-Apr-25 11:19:20

For information:

What country does the UK export to the most?
2.1 Top 10 UK export markets for goods and services in 2023 1
RankExport market% of total
1 United States21.2%
2 Germany 7.0%
3 Ireland 6.4%
4 Netherlands 6.2%
9 more rows•20 Feb 2025

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Thu 03-Apr-25 11:21:08

I don’t know Wyllow.

More voters in America went for Trump than Kamala Harris.
They knew what Trump had in mind …short term pain for long term gain. He said it often enough!

ayse Thu 03-Apr-25 11:23:03

pascal30

ayse

James O’Brian is suggesting Keir is doing the only thing he can do. Sit on the fence and hope it all falls apart.

As a consumer and current Apple user, I’m seriously thinking I will not replace them with like. Instead, I’ll buy a Fairphone (Dutch and repairable) for calls and a random pad. I’ll be able then to download my photos and save them to a hard drive. I’m also going to use Prime less and EBay etc. more. I’ve long thought we don’t have a special relationship with USA.

I wish our governments would support British industry rather than selling them off. We need to invest in the UK

I agree with you about British Industry ayse.. and about buying European goods..

However I think that Starmer is actually being cleverly strategic as behoves his legal background.. I don't for one minute think he is doing nothing..

J O’B has just said he is working away in the background. I tend to agree that our current government is not saying quite a lot and playing the wait and see game.

I certainly don’t want chlorinated chicken, USA eggs and any meat with antibiotics. I’m still going to avoid USA products where possible.

Wyllow3 Thu 03-Apr-25 11:24:14

But thats not the point, FGT, on this issue, as we deal with EU tariffs as a block.

Looked up a fact for another discussion on clothes made in the USA. Only 3% of clothes bought in the USA are made there. its going to raise costs exponentially.

Smileless2012 Thu 03-Apr-25 11:28:56

I don't understand why Trump or anyone else believes that America has been 'taken for a ride', 'used and abused' etc. There's always been the option for the USA to impose tarrifs on countries who've imposed them on America.

It's not as if America couldn't have done this decades ago or am I missing something here?

Casdon Thu 03-Apr-25 11:31:08

You can’t have it all ways FriedGreenTomatoes2. You rail against the EU because it’s a bloc, with joint purchasing power, then you separate all the countries out to compare them as individual countries against the USA. It doesn’t make sense.

ayse Thu 03-Apr-25 11:33:12

FriedGreenTomatoes2

For information:

What country does the UK export to the most?
2.1 Top 10 UK export markets for goods and services in 2023 1
RankExport market% of total
1 United States21.2%
2 Germany 7.0%
3 Ireland 6.4%
4 Netherlands 6.2%
9 more rows•20 Feb 2025

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf

Here you will see that 42% of our exports go to the EU

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-trade-in-numbers/uk-trade-in-numbers-web-version

And here you will see that 21.7% of our exports go to the USA.

Both of these are government sources.

MaizieD Thu 03-Apr-25 11:42:29

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I don’t know Wyllow.

More voters in America went for Trump than Kamala Harris.
They knew what Trump had in mind …short term pain for long term gain. He said it often enough!

Perhaps you could point out some instances in his pre-election campaign when Trump said that there would be short term pain for long term gain? Because I can only recall him saying that everything would be wonderful from Day 1 of his presidency.

I suspect you're changing the narrative just like the Brexiters did after the EU referendum. From 'sunlit uplands' to 'some pain'.

Elegran Thu 03-Apr-25 11:47:17

We keep hearing that our biggest export market is the US, but as you can see from the chart below ( from www.gov.uk/government/statistics/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book/trade-and-investment-core-statistics-book#total-goods-and-services-exports ) our biggest market is The EU as a whole where we export 41.1% of our total exports, compared to 21.7% to the US - nearly twice as much going to our neighbours in the EU as goes across the pond. If we separately listed each US state - whose inhabitants may be as many as in some European countries - we could compare like with like, but the TOTAL of exports to the US would still be well below the TOTAL to countries in the EU.

(I have emphasised the entries for the US and for the EU as a whole to make my point clear, and added a couple of pointers a the side of the relevant figures.)

4.4 Top 10 UK export markets (for goods and services) in the 12 months ending September 20241
Rank . Market . . . .£ billion . . . .% of total exports
1 United States . . . .182.6 . . . . . .21.7% <---- To the US
2 Germany . . . . . . . 59.5 . . . . . .7.1%
3 Netherlands . . . . .49.4 . . . . . .5.9%
4 Ireland . . . . . . . . . 49.3 . . . . . .5.8%
5 France . . . . . . . . . .5.5% . . .. . . .5.5%
6 China . . . . . . . . . . 32.0 . . . . . .3.8%
7 Belgium . . . . . . . .26.4 . . . . . . .3.1%
8 Switzerland . . . . .26.2 . . . . . . .3.1%
9 Spain . . . . . . . . . . .19.7 . . . . . . .2.3%
10 Italy . . . . . . . . . . . .18.6 . . . . . . .2.2%
______EU1 . . . . .346.1 . . . . .41.1% < -To the EU
______Non-EU1 .496.5 . . . .58.9%
______World1 . . .842.7 . . . .100.0%

Notes:
^ 1 - World, EU, and non-EU totals may not always match figures in the statistical summary sheet due to timings of release of the different sources used. Totals in the statistics summary sheet should be preferred.^
2 - Exports were equivalent to 29.4% of UK GDP in 2024, down from 31.1% in 2023. (Sources: ONS UK Trade: December 2024 and GDP first quarterly estimate, UK: October to December 2024, next releases: ONS UK Trade: January 2025 and GDP quarterly national accounts, UK: October to December 2024).

Elegran Thu 03-Apr-25 11:50:07

Crossed posts, ayse and Casdon We all seem to have looked for the actual sources of the figures for the statements so blithely being thrown about, rather than believe in myths and partial quoes!.