Strewth- a totally different point of view

Xposted there withMOnica and FGT.

Galaxy 🙈😏. I’m beyond work getting in the way of a scrap on gransnet but covid has finally sought me out, so my brain more fuddled than usual.

I agree Trump (and Reform) because if the failure of the ‘left’ to acknowledge the genuine concerns expressed here in my northern town. We were King Cotton, we had manufacturing, engineering, railways. We were proud and it’s not hard to understand some simply blame incomers for the downward spiral.
On other similar threads you’ve suggested it’s not a good look to call people stupid. I’ve also posted that my pro Brexit neighbours (for eg) weren’t stupid. I believe they were ill informed, persuaded immigration would reduce if we left the EU. Not stupid.
I agree also that the disrupter can appeal when distrust in major institutions wobbles.

I’m continuing to feel relief we have Starmer. Not perfect of course but steady and intelligent,and that has to be better than a disrupter

politicsNerd you are milking this for all it’s worth. I’m not sure why, especially as I apologised to you up thread. 🤔

escaped

So, 30% of MAGA supporters have a college degree. So that really does prove they're not all unintelligent or uneducated. Or insane.
I agree with Norah. Trump appeals to many diverse groups.

An American College degree in America, generally is nowhere near the standard that we expect of universities in this country. Yes, the big 'schools' Harvard, Princetown etc and the institutions called universities are comparable but a college education is often little more than what we reckon as A level standard.

But education is no guide to how people think politically. In this country many very right wing High Tories are very well educated, ditto the number of academics whose politics are very left of centre.

I think there were a lot of American voters who voted for the Republicans because Biden was such a lack lustre, doubtfully compus mentes President, while Kamala Harris was shoe horned in at the last minute without proper support.

The problem was that the Democratic party quite simply lacked any one with enough charisma and competence to attract floating voters and the indecision of the existing Democratic administration put people of - and as the USA is a two party state it was vote Republican or abstain.

Galaxy 😂

It is so irritating when work gets in the way of a fight on the Internet
I think Trump appeals to a variety of people because of a failure of the 'left'. I think there is also an appeal in the 'disrupter', it is an Up Yours to being told how to feel, what to believe by politicians, media, etc. Similar to Johnson Trump was able to tap into something which appealed to many.

Allira

escaped that reminded me of a post-referendum party we went to. 🙂

I have seen comments from several posters that FriedGreenTomatoes2 is always polite despite having differing views from the majority on here and I will agree with that, even though I may disagree with her too.

Is childish name calling your idea of someone "always being polite, Allira"? How strange. This thread gets increasingly more disappointing.

Oh Lara Loomer. She is literally crazy. She has been institutionalized more than once IIRC.

She is wholly unqualified to be making decisions in Government, especially since she has never been elected, despite trying.

The fact that these highly qualified people have been fired on her say so is scary to be frank. But it is no different than what Musk has done.

I have more voter information for further discussion. It shows voter 2020 vs 2024. Ill be back after my meeting!

escaped

So, 30% of MAGA supporters have a college degree. So that really does prove they're not all unintelligent or uneducated. Or insane.
I agree with Norah. Trump appeals to many diverse groups.

Some number over 50% are white, male, and perhaps Christian -- not a majority in a country where only 75m voted for him.

He appeals to a diverse group, with their own ideas and wishes, imo.

So, 30% of MAGA supporters have a college degree. So that really does prove they're not all unintelligent or uneducated. Or insane.
I agree with Norah. Trump appeals to many diverse groups.

afsa.org/afsa-statement-appointment-lew-olowski-acting-director-general-us-foreign-service?fbclid=IwY2xjawJg1olleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHiRS2cvc4VX65Sio6XnDJH_LT5FStpD7WHyd6TKxkmoK4qM57iWIEl9Hin3j_aem_jvwBeBdARVbzlehPVS3ksA

No idea what a junior officer is, maybe he's just being inclusive?

Interestingly, someone also prompted him to fire head of NSA.

www.nytimes.com/2025/04/05/us/politics/trump-loomer-haugh-cyberattacks-elections.html

I highly recommend taking a look at the Difference page of this study from the tabs at the top of the page. It gives a good indication of the viewpoints held by a lot of MAGA, something to note.

There is, in fact, a defined MAGA type. This page shows a lot about who MAGA are overall.

As with any group, not 100% are all the same. But this study gives a pretty good idea of who is MAGA.

sites.uw.edu/magastudy/demographics-group-affinities/

NotSpaghetti

Norah - we lived there too - though not recently. I thought I was just adding to the discussion. The straightforward "MAGA people" are a bit of a stereotype I think.

The couple I found harder to chat to (and with whom I was more careful how I put things) were Californians, and retired. We shared memories of camping with our children, good places to eat, chatted about manufacturing... I don't think they were evagelical Christians as they fondly talked about their daughter and partner. They drove a truck and liked wild camping. They were against the covid vaccines.

They were pretty ordinary sorts in many other ways - but obviously Trump had offered them something they wanted - and that was a halt to immigration. This was the theme of their conversation.

Agreed, I don't there is a defined maga type. I do believe he has has a large following among evangelical Christians, not easy to understand (morally/ Biblically) apart from his anti abortion stance.

He appeals to many diverse groups, many reason, obviously.

I'm amused at the self-made man view to him and say Bill Gates.

escaped that reminded me of a post-referendum party we went to. 🙂

I have seen comments from several posters that FriedGreenTomatoes2 is always polite despite having differing views from the majority on here and I will agree with that, even though I may disagree with her too.

Norah - we lived there too - though not recently. I thought I was just adding to the discussion. The straightforward "MAGA people" are a bit of a stereotype I think.

The couple I found harder to chat to (and with whom I was more careful how I put things) were Californians, and retired. We shared memories of camping with our children, good places to eat, chatted about manufacturing... I don't think they were evagelical Christians as they fondly talked about their daughter and partner. They drove a truck and liked wild camping. They were against the covid vaccines.

They were pretty ordinary sorts in many other ways - but obviously Trump had offered them something they wanted - and that was a halt to immigration. This was the theme of their conversation.

It's certainly got a childish edge escaped. It really does remind me of the little group of immature girls who generally assessed you if you arrived at a school mid-term and mid-year.

Apparently people still do this, with similar petty prejudices - as adults, who knew?! But you do soon learn to just tolerate those who would call you, what was it, "po-faced" etc., and get to know the more tolerant and open minded.

So sad some never grew past such behaviour traits though. Just as they thought they owned the school some seem to think own GN. Hey-ho

This thread is weird.

I was with French friends here in Brittany over the weekend, and excellent political discussions were enjoyed over a 3 hour lunch on the patio. 🌞
None of them are like me, we have neither the same provenance nor education. Some supported Marine Le Pen, others didn't. Some went on about immigration, others about retirement. Some were very complimentary about the British Royal Family, most didn't know Starmer's name. And on went the talking.
As an onlooker, I can't remember noticing anyone sticking to anyone just because they had similar political views. It was just heated conversation. Either that or 🍷 🍷?!

I don't stick to anyone on GN, I don't think anyone does. We align ourselves politically sometimes, but that's only natural. The main time posters get irritated is when someone doesn't instantly agree with them, and then they just set off justifying everything and shouting others down. That's silly in my opinion.

When you say they were “sensible high achievers” how do you define that and where’s your evidence?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I just think on the whole we ‘click’ with people of a similar outlook or disposition? Which isn’t to say we don’t become friends with those who hold totally different views (some of my good friends are not as discerning as I am 😂) but I do think that we just chime better with those more similar to ourselves.

Agreed, of course we tend to rub on better with those like us.

NotSpaghetti

We met (casually) many people in America last visit who I think were pretty right wing.
Some were challenging to have a conversation with. Two of them in particular to be honest.

Everything this couple said (pretty much) came back to immigration and although we chatted for maybe an hour or so over lunch. It was clear their whole outlook revolved around this issue.

They had grown-up family like us. Their attitude was that people make their own luck, immigrants were scrounging, guns were necessary, taxes were robbery, environmental damage was nothing to do with people, Trump was a businessman (they said he'd only had a "small" handout from his dad and was self-made).

They objected (this was immediately post pandemic) to "town" people walking in "their" favourite parkland/country area - particularly if they were black - "not because we have a problem with black people but because they would never understand". It was quite a wide-ranging conversation.

I know this encounter is unremarkable but we did try to discuss and learn.

Things we had in common - love of our families and a love of nature - but different ideas about how to fix it... of if it even needed fixing.

We've lived there, their right is not our right.

The couple you spoke to over lunch were probably white, southern, evagelical Christians, and very right maga followers? They love their guns, fancy huge homes, self-made millionaire status.

However, I doubt that group is large enough to have won the election. He received many votes from people of colour, low income, pensioners.

What they think needs fixing - lower taxes, less illegals roaming round, no green policy, no money wasted off their shores - isolationism and no more wars, less welfare, less favour to minorities.

Did the assassination attempt win it for him? I wonder, many believe that was critical to his win (by such a low margin).

Did someone mention mob boss?

He is demanding yearly payments from Europe, for "reparations" I guess, before he will even sit down at the bargaining table with them.

eutoday.net/trump-accuses-europe-of-trade-injustice/

That is a good point FGT. We do stick with those more similar to ourselves, which is why Trump is more than just "political differences" when it comes to relationships.

Trump supporters accept his racism, sexism, homophobic and transphobic tendencies, even if they don't believe they hold those values themselves.

This means, unfortunately, that the political divide is increasing because an increasing number of the population here in the US refuse to associate with people who support Trump as a person despite his negative traits. This is before politics and policies even come into play.

He transcends political differences and moves into a completely different category.

I won't be sticking to any racists any time soon

I just think on the whole we ‘click’ with people of a similar outlook or disposition? Which isn’t to say we don’t become friends with those who hold totally different views (some of my good friends are not as discerning as I am 😂) but I do think that we just chime better with those more similar to ourselves.