Globalisation - The implications for ordinary working people

valdavi

It's not only lack of jobs in the area that leads to unemployment, we live near a relatively affluent city but there are pockets of the city where unemployment is double the national average.
The area I just looked up has half as many people born outside the UK compared with the city as a whole - the unemployment rate is (or was at last census) approximately double. There are decent bus links to the centre, but presumably education & health inequalities & poverty mean that the people here aren't getting those jobs.

Education is the key. There is no reason why somebody born in a deprived area shouldn't have a decent education and be able to get a decent job - as you write, they are often within commutable distance.

The issue with suggesting that factories should be built in deprived areas to provide jobs is that it perpetuates the idea that some areas do all the work/production (and will inevitably be low paid), while other areas control the production and have better-paid management jobs. The idea that the South East has all the wealth will continue to exist.

We actually need deprived areas to have a range of employment opportunities (apart from decent education) in the arts, IT, bioscience, etc etc. I doubt if we will ever return to a situation where the UK relies on manufacturing - it just doesn't make sense when the same items can be imported for less as a result of wage differentials. Even deprived areas need public service workers (medics, teachers, firefighters, administrators) and people providing other services (lawyers, accountants, retail, hospitality). Unfortunately, people tend to dismiss the contribution they make to the economy.

grostuff Educational attainment in deprived areas is lower than elsewhere, no matter how many state schools they have.

I knew someone would bring up Sunderland, but one swallow does not make a summer and the fact that there are a few areas doing well, does not invalidate my argument.

Find my 'plumpot' reference, near the top of the page, it deals with three northern areas. I am not in any 'Oxford bubble'

Yes, I know that educational attainment is deprived areas is lower than the national average. Ask yourself why. It's not that people are stupid, but there is a lack of aspiration. I was brought up in such a community. There is a certain amount of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Building factories and encouraging low-skilled jobs will do nothing to overcome that. For as long as I can remember there has been an idea in certain communities that southerners are "toffs".

There are many areas located within so-called wider areas of deprivation where there is wealth and the quality of life is good - Harrogate, Buxton, West Wirral, York, etc etc. Conversely, there are pockets of places even in wealthy cities like Cambridge where there is real deprivation.

One of my favourite museums is the People's History Museum in Manchester. In the nineteenth century, there was abject poverty amongst the workers, while there are records showing how the factory owners were incredibly rich. The inequality was much much greater than today. Oh yes, there was work (which is why people flocked to the cities and away from the land), but at what price?

The country needs an industrial/employment strategy which spreads high value jobs around the country.

growstuff I think you're absolutely right about lack of aspiration. There needs to be some sort of momentum whereby future generations can aspire and achieve whatever their background.

When I left school there were two routes you could take - you either went to university or you got a job. But we now seem to have a third choice - remain unemployed and let the state (ie the tax payer) fund you.

There was a time when standing in the dole queue was somewhat demeaning. Now you can just wait for the money to drop into your bank account.

I accept that there will always be people who are unemployed for one reason or another, but there seems to be a lot of entitlement these days.

ferry23 I'm sure you're right, but that wasn't really what I was thinking about. I read somewhere or other that only c.25% of school leavers in the North East go on to university (or equivalent), which is much lower than the national average.

I know there have been many discussions about university not being suitable for everybody and I think there's some truth in that. However, there is no doubt that graduates generally do go on to have more powerful, better paid jobs. I'm all for quality apprenticeships, especially at the higher levels, but I'm still waiting for our "top brass" to encourage their offspring to do apprenticeships. There seems to be reverse snobbery about academic qualifications. There's something wrong when young people in one area are only half as likely to go to university as the average. It's not because they're any less intelligent.

I think it's wishful thinking to think that the UK will ever repatriate its traditional industrial base. We just don't earn enough to pay the prices which need to be charged if workers are to be paid decent wages. Currently the UK's strength is in industries such as IT and biosciences with many other services such as tourism. We need to be encouraging more training places in sustainable industries, not harking back to some mythical golden age (when wealth wasn't distributed evenly - amongst people or regions - anyway).

I'd like to see more initiatives such as relocating part of the BBC to Salford. Remote working should mean that employees don't necessarily have to be employed in certain places. Both my children and my son-in-law have senior, well-paid jobs working either from home (in the North) or in offices based in supposedly deprived areas. They have the advantage of not having to pay South East prices for their homes and having a great quality of life. They all needed degrees for the jobs they have.

I'd love to see a properly integrated and funded educational/industrial strategy in the UK. I'm not happy for people to think that just placing a factory or distribution hub in a deprived area is enough. They'll provide jobs, but not the range of opportunities which are needed to balance the have/have not divide.

We do need to align the education system to the requirements of the economy, any manufacturing business is a pyramid of pay grade with the majority of workers in the medium and low incomes. Any new industries are going to be automated where a computer is programmed to do the skilled work, the human input is to serve the computer.

It’s rather like a chain store or supermarket where head office decides how each task is done, each store has to follow that system, the majority of those workers only need a short training period

The problem is growstuff is that there are aspirationl people in such communities, but aspiration takes them out of those communities and away from them, so that, those who lack the skills or backgrounds to improve their lives become concentrated in those areas.

There was a report on some recent research that showed that children from deprived homes mixing with, and having friends from more affluent homes, did better at school and in life than those who only mixed with children with similar backgrounds to their own.

I have only to look back to my own family to see how as grandparents made the most of their (limited) opportunities, one of the first signs of improvement was a move out of the neighbourhoods they had been born in to micer leafier suburbs. inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/grew-up-poor-wealthy-friends-changed-fate-3602272?srsltid=AfmBOophbllSCI0CrjBWpBfruDxQytWbSUShJHqDeS2ow_SVtmyFkJbj

Education has always been aligned to the needs of the economy. Anyone who has studied the history of education, been a teacher, worked for exam boards or worked for publishers of educational text books will have been aware of the changes in our education system over the past century. Our curriculum and exam system is much less about learning facts and far more focused on developing generic transferable skills which are required in the work place. The fact that too many young people leave school without these skills is the issue not that they are not part of the school curriculum.
I think it's very difficult to anticipate what new skills might be required by workers over their lifetime, which ATM is circa 40 years or more. I know quite a few people who work in computing of one sort or another, they are paid well generally but they all seem to loathe their jobs, getting little in the way of emotional satisfaction. As we move into a world where more and more of our jobs are done by computers will we will need more ways of providing our population with the pleasure and stimulation which many of us used to get from our work? Possibly and perhaps a broad based education which develops the whole person rather than just the next worker will be required?

It’s great if you get “emotional satisfaction” from your job, for the majority paying the rent is the reason for working. The reason to get extra training or qualification is to earn more money. It may still be an unpleasant or boring job but you get the pleasure out of having a better lifestyle.

Well, Maslow's hierachy of needs suggests differently and it's why good employers are interested in what motivates people and for most people, once their basic needs are met they are less interested in money and more interested in other aspects of their working life. Perhaps it's how you have viewed work but it's certainly not the way I have viewed it. Purpose, People, Progress and Positivity are often seen as the four pillars that underpin people's happiness at work and happiness at work is good for business as it improves retention and motivation which both lead to increased output.

M0nica

The problem is growstuff is that there are aspirationl people in such communities, but aspiration takes them out of those communities and away from them, so that, those who lack the skills or backgrounds to improve their lives become concentrated in those areas.

There was a report on some recent research that showed that children from deprived homes mixing with, and having friends from more affluent homes, did better at school and in life than those who only mixed with children with similar backgrounds to their own.

I have only to look back to my own family to see how as grandparents made the most of their (limited) opportunities, one of the first signs of improvement was a move out of the neighbourhoods they had been born in to micer leafier suburbs. inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/grew-up-poor-wealthy-friends-changed-fate-3602272?srsltid=AfmBOophbllSCI0CrjBWpBfruDxQytWbSUShJHqDeS2ow_SVtmyFkJbj

People don't have to move outside their own environment if there are local opportunities. My own extended family comes from the North East (Teesside). Many of them are graduates who have chosen to stay in the region. They were all state-school educated, went to university and then returned home. Housing is cheap, so they live in houses which seem like mansions to those of us living in more expensive areas. They have a great quality of life.

People with no skills get "dumped" in deprived areas because housing is cheap, but don't forget that even deprived areas need people with professional skills (lawyers, teachers, accountants, medics, etc etc). Offering only unskilled jobs in factories just reinforces the split.

I agree with you foxie. It's interesting to note what Google Inc provides for its employees in California - sleep pods, rest spaces, green areas, etc.

I also agree that the education system can't anticipate what the future needs of a workforce are, apart from generic skills. One only has to look back over the last 40 years to see how the needs have changed. My own feeling is that the education system should promote high levels of numeracy and literacy alongside critical thinking and good working practices such as punctuality, problem solving, ability to work with others, etc etc. People with agile minds can learn specific vocational skills quite quickly if/when the need arises.

We desperately need immigrating young workers and inward investment for new industry and increased productivity. I worry that Starmer, Reeves, Raynes et al (and the Tories) lack the depth of thinking needed to make us prosperous and secure.

growstuff

I also agree that the education system can't anticipate what the future needs of a workforce are, apart from generic skills. One only has to look back over the last 40 years to see how the needs have changed. My own feeling is that the education system should promote high levels of numeracy and literacy alongside critical thinking and good working practices such as punctuality, problem solving, ability to work with others, etc etc. People with agile minds can learn specific vocational skills quite quickly if/when the need arises.

It can anticipate the current needs, isn’t that what education is about, providing skills for school/university leavers to enable them to find employment and contribute to the economy

David49

growstuff

I also agree that the education system can't anticipate what the future needs of a workforce are, apart from generic skills. One only has to look back over the last 40 years to see how the needs have changed. My own feeling is that the education system should promote high levels of numeracy and literacy alongside critical thinking and good working practices such as punctuality, problem solving, ability to work with others, etc etc. People with agile minds can learn specific vocational skills quite quickly if/when the need arises.

It can anticipate the current needs, isn’t that what education is about, providing skills for school/university leavers to enable them to find employment and contribute to the economy

But current pupils and students will be in the workforce for the next 50 years!

No, education isn't just about enabling school/university leavers to find employment and contribute to the economy!!!

It's not up to schools to provide vocational training for a readymade workforce.

David what are these skills that schools should be teaching and currently are not teaching?

So why do so many school leavers and indeed university graduates find so much difficulty fitting into the adult world.

Between 16 and 18 many do choose a vocational foundation course, at FE colleges.

David49

So why do so many school leavers and indeed university graduates find so much difficulty fitting into the adult world.

Between 16 and 18 many do choose a vocational foundation course, at FE colleges.

But what are these skills that schools and colleges are failing to teach?
Vocational courses teach skills geared towards a specific occupation usually with core skills that are generic to any employment, this is fine for those young people who know what they want to do as a career but most young people are unsure so continue their education with a less restrictive range of subjects. You seem to be talking about something else and tbh I'm not sure what you want included in the school curriculum which is already overcrowded. I'm also not sure that so many school leavers or graduates do find it difficult fitting into an adult world. What makes you think that they do?

People don't have to move outside their own environment if there are local opportunities. My own extended family comes from the North East (Teesside). Many of them are graduates who have chosen to stay in the region. They were all state-school educated, went to university and then returned home. Housing is cheap, so they live in houses which seem like mansions to those of us living in more expensive areas. They have a great quality of life. People with no skills get "dumped" in deprived areas because housing is cheap, but don't forget that even deprived areas need people with professional skills (lawyers, teachers, accountants, medics, etc etc). Offering only unskilled jobs in factories just reinforces the split.

growstuff. Do the successful members of your family live in the same neighbourhoods they lived in when they were children? or do they live in the same town, but in different areas. I suspect the latter because you comment on the quality of their houses, moving areas means being in the catchment areas of different schools, of being in schools, of being at school with other children from similar aspirational families.

You do not need to move far within a town to go from deprived to aspirational area. The same with professional people who work in deprived areas. Professional people may work in deprived areas, but they travel home to leafy more prosperous suburbs after work.

When deprved areas lose those within the group who have tha capapcity to move on to higher education etc, it deprives the remaining community of their brightest people who are most likely to provide such a community with advocates and encourage others.

We seem to have got rid of a class system that kept people within the class they were born to but meant that all these classes included both the less able and the brightest and best for a meritocracy where the cleverest and most enterprising get ahead and win all the prizes and those less able to make their way in the world are stuck.

I am not sure which is worst.

They can begin with discipline, especially self discipline, schools give them new experiences day by day, work is not like that you follow instructions then repeat the task day by day, only as you gain more experience and qualification do you move on to other tasks.

They can teach the basics of personal finance, how to interact with the adults they are going to be working alongside. I always found girls were much better than boys, they just couldn’t put their phones away and forget their mates when they were working.

My criticism is aimed mainly at boys they just don’t take life and work seriously, the concept having to work for the wages they get is foreign - many just sponge off their parents for pocket money

Of course schools teach discipline and also encourage self discipline. Schools rely on pupils knowing what is expected of them and most pupils follow those rules. Contrary to what people might think the vast majority of schools are well organised and rules based, pupils are expected to work in groups and on their own both in and out of the school environment and most do. As always it is the exceptions that always seem to prove the rule!
Financial competence is taught through the curriculum from year 4 and is part of the citizenship element of the national curriculum.
You may have been particularly unlucky with the young men that you've come into contact with because I don't think they are representative of most young men. It is true they often mature more slowly than young women but describing them as you have done seems to be a rather prejudiced and harsh view that is not reflective of many of the young men that I have met over the years. I have five grandsons and none would fit your description.

foxie48

Of course schools teach discipline and also encourage self discipline. Schools rely on pupils knowing what is expected of them and most pupils follow those rules. Contrary to what people might think the vast majority of schools are well organised and rules based, pupils are expected to work in groups and on their own both in and out of the school environment and most do. As always it is the exceptions that always seem to prove the rule!
Financial competence is taught through the curriculum from year 4 and is part of the citizenship element of the national curriculum.
You may have been particularly unlucky with the young men that you've come into contact with because I don't think they are representative of most young men. It is true they often mature more slowly than young women but describing them as you have done seems to be a rather prejudiced and harsh view that is not reflective of many of the young men that I have met over the years. I have five grandsons and none would fit your description.

What you say just isn’t true because there wouldnt be a problem with youth unemployment, if school leavers were prepared for the adult world.

I also have grandsons 4 of them, on the occasions I worked alongside them it was a challenge the first year, a ordinary boss or co worker would not have tolerated it for long. They all grew up of course, at 20 they were just normal pleasant lads.
It’s that lack of maturity at school leaving age thats the problem most of my/our age group wants straight to work at 15 or 16 that was what we were schooled for

David49

foxie48

Of course schools teach discipline and also encourage self discipline. Schools rely on pupils knowing what is expected of them and most pupils follow those rules. Contrary to what people might think the vast majority of schools are well organised and rules based, pupils are expected to work in groups and on their own both in and out of the school environment and most do. As always it is the exceptions that always seem to prove the rule!
Financial competence is taught through the curriculum from year 4 and is part of the citizenship element of the national curriculum.
You may have been particularly unlucky with the young men that you've come into contact with because I don't think they are representative of most young men. It is true they often mature more slowly than young women but describing them as you have done seems to be a rather prejudiced and harsh view that is not reflective of many of the young men that I have met over the years. I have five grandsons and none would fit your description.

What you say just isn’t true because there wouldnt be a problem with youth unemployment, if school leavers were prepared for the adult world.

I also have grandsons 4 of them, on the occasions I worked alongside them it was a challenge the first year, a ordinary boss or co worker would not have tolerated it for long. They all grew up of course, at 20 they were just normal pleasant lads.
It’s that lack of maturity at school leaving age thats the problem most of my/our age group wants straight to work at 15 or 16 that was what we were schooled for

Maybe their parents had something to do with their lack of maturity.

What exactly do you think schools should be teaching young people to prepare them for the adult world (whatever that is)?

Maybe we should look to China and see how how young people/school pupils are treated! They are brought up to be compliant.