Is it time to stop paying £££s millions to the French?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

No it wasn’t irony Iam. It wa# an inflammatory post.
Most on here are at least trying to discuss possible solutions.

For what it’s worth, in my opinion, the time is long overdue now for introducing ID cards.

No card = no job (or a MASSIVE fine for any employers to deter other businesses). The lack of ID encourages ‘cash in hand’ jobs in the UK which I think is a big pull factor.

I definitely agree with ID cards, but I have heard the powers that be saying it would be too expensive blah blah…
But let’s keep throwing money at net zero….

Locally to my family in the West mids, a former army camp is being used, mostly for Afgans, many of whom worked for the uk military before the Taliban takeover. That sort of place seems ok to me, using hotels less so. It is obvious that if you dump a load of bored young men together in an hotel/hostel with no supervision they will cause trouble, whatever their origins.

Goldencity You have failed to differentiate between Afghan people who arrived here illegally in small boats, who are in the main young men, and those who arrived here under the humanitarian visa resettlement schemes, who are mainly families and children.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

No it wasn’t irony Iam. It wa# an inflammatory post.
Most on here are at least trying to discuss possible solutions.

For what it’s worth, in my opinion, the time is long overdue now for introducing ID cards.

No card = no job (or a MASSIVE fine for any employers to deter other businesses). The lack of ID encourages ‘cash in hand’ jobs in the UK which I think is a big pull factor.

Totally agree 👍🏻

Perhaps outrage should be better expended on the person wrote

I have just seen them all disembarking and wrapping themselves in lovely warm blankets that are handed to them

I like others want to see the boats stopped, but I also think that should not stop us showing compassion for those that arrive in these boats. Most of them have been driven from their homes by war, catastrophe and disaster. Thie journeys, mainly form the Middle East and Afghanistan have been long, horrendous and dreadful. I suspect about 99% of them would have preferred to have remained in their country of origin among friends and family, had the conditions been even half OK.

As they say, we can hate the sin but love the sinner.

Remarks like the above, make me feel sick.

No it wasn’t irony Iam. It wa# an inflammatory post.
Most on here are at least trying to discuss possible solutions.

For what it’s worth, in my opinion, the time is long overdue now for introducing ID cards.

No card = no job (or a MASSIVE fine for any employers to deter other businesses). The lack of ID encourages ‘cash in hand’ jobs in the UK which I think is a big pull factor.

Oh MOnica such hyperbole!
Let’s at least try to keep the discussion sensible. No need to be goady.

MOnica introducing irony - you’ll be back to evidence reality and understanding next . Yiu don’t seem to understand Outrage is what’s needed, never mind understanding why it’s happening and a smigeon of compassion for humans who weren’t lucky enough to be born in a safe country

Primrose53

Yes.

I have just seen them all disembarking and wrapping themselves in lovely warm blankets that are handed to them.

Smash the Gangs and Stop The Boats are slogans we frequently see on road signs and fences.

I quite agree, we would all much prefer to have them left shivering on the beach and then turned out on the road to find their own food and shelter, especially the children. That really would make their parents think twice befor they start the journey.

I would go further, they should be refused housing, and anyone helping them in any way, offering food, clothing or a bed for the night, should be visited by the police have their houses searched and then be warned and have a criminal record.

The “African guys” as I said came from Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia and Mali as I said. And yes, the French can be just as racist as the Brits.

Also- this was pre-Covid, and at that time the French allowances were slightly higher.

As for there being less bureaucracy in the UK, well I’ve delt with both, most recently trying to claim my uk pension and can say that they are different, but equally bureaucratic!

Where should they live? As asylum seekers they are not allowed to work, and get £49.18 p/week , so obviously can’t rent privately. Locally to my family in the West mids, a former army camp is being used, mostly for Afgans, many of whom worked for the uk military before the Taliban takeover. That sort of place seems ok to me, using hotels less so. It is obvious that if you dump a load of bored young men together in an hotel/hostel with no supervision they will cause trouble, whatever their origins.

Don’t get me wrong- I am not advocating an “open door”’policy, but I’m not sure what a lot of you want or how you think the mass migration situation can be controlled.
Should the navy (and the navies of other countries in Europe) sink the boats and just leave the people in them to drown?
Should we have machine gun posts on the beaches?
Should asylum seekers be put in prison or forced labour to earn their food?

It’s all very well yelling “take back control of our borders” but how?
I made some suggestions in my previous post/ now let’s hear yours.

There is a lot of racism in this thread “those people” could be “us” if situations were different, so we should be working out how to control the situation while at the same time acting with humanity towards those less fortunate.

growstuff

Sarnia

Whitewavemark2

And the best way to do this would be to rejoin the EU.

This was always going to be a major issue for the U.K. post-Brexit - but many of us didn’t listen.

So a democratic vote to Leave should be ignored? Migrants have been flooding in since the end of WW2. Nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with Governments being unable to impose a fair yet rigorous immigration policy and making sure Border Control is fit for purpose. Plenty of talking but no action.
It's too late for Britain now. Enoch Powell must be spinning in his grave.

Are you implying that Brexit was all about immigration?

Boris made it very clear that Britain would take back its borders if we left the EU.
That statement persuaded a lot of the electorate to vote Leave.

The amount of financial assistance that asylum seekers receive in France is pretty much equal to that they would receive in the UK. The main incentive for them is that the paperwork and hoop-jumping is far less onerous in the UK. Handouts are readily available. France has always been notorious for its bureaucracy and fact-checking.
"African guys," as you call them, if they are from Morocco or Tunisia, etc, have a very tough time being accepted by French people for historical reasons.

Before we moved, just over 4 years ago, we'd earmarked a hotel as a place to stay when we came up to our old area, which is actually only 30 miles away, but sometimes we come up for several reasons which necessitates an over nighter. The hotel in question, part of the Crown Plaza group, pretty new, overlooking the Thames with fitness suite, restaurant etc., in fact my son went to a wedding reception there for one of his friends. So when trying to book prospective overnight stays, it became apparent that it had been withdrawn from Booking.Com and similar sites, so we found alternatives. It was only when I read on line apropos of a double stabbing involving two immigrant men staying there, that I realised why it wasn't available to the public anymore. It does seem as mentioned up- thread, that hotel chains are cynically exploiting the opportunity of making money over and above what they might expect from conventional bookings. From what I gather the local people found the fracas that ended up in the BMW dealership car park next to the hotel where the stabbings took place pretty unnerving, particularly as the hotel was full of single men, rather than families.

Goldencity

Some facts: number of Asylum seekers
The uk (2024) : 108,131
www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/stay-informed/explainers/top-facts-from-the-latest-statistics-on-refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum/#:~:text=People%20seeking%20asylum%20make%20up,%2C%20Iran%2C%20Bangladesh%20and%20Syria.

France (2023) 142,500
www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/01/23/france-received-record-number-of-asylum-requests-in-2023_6458119_7.html#:~:text=Around%20142%2C500%20people%20applied%20in,OFPRA)%20said%20in%20provisional%20figures.

Asylum Seekers, refugees, migrants call them what you will, are just people- and yes, the whole of the continent has a problem with mass migration.
With political instability and climate change, this is only going to get worse. Individual countries can’t tackle this on their own, it has to be done at a continental level.

The migrants themselves are just people- some are running from war or famine, others just looking for a better life. They are not evil, just ordinary humans, like you and me and our families.

I attended a French language for foreigners class here (I live in France).
The Syrian family- 3 generations running from the appalling violence of Diesh, the Marrocan and Algerian girls, fleeing forced marriage and domestic violence, a couple of Afgans and a couple of dozen African men from Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia and Mali.

These men were shipped into our small town after the French government cleared out the Jungle near Calais.

Most of the class tried hard with their French (it’s compulsory to learn and pass the test to B2 level) and gradually integrated into French culture.

I chatted to the African guys, most had some English. Why not stay in France - you get training here and more money than in the UK (I showed them the official uk government website). They didn’t believe me- the traffickers had told them they would each get a house, car, job and “English girls like men like us” ….

The traffickers are the problem- spreading lies and false hope. Tackle this misinformation, allow asylum seekers to apply before they cross the channel (cut off the traffickers money supply), stop the sales of these cheap boats, cooperate with our neighbours to catch and lock up the traffickers are some measures which could be used.

I know there is a shortage of housing, the NHS can’t cope ect, but this is not the fault of desperate people searching for a better, safer life. Or in the case of my Syrian friends, any life at all.

Look instead to the lack of investment, the waste (HS2 anyone?) and austerity enforced by previous generations and ask yourself just what have they spent the billions of £ of tax payers money on- not on a few thousand brown people arriving in boats that’s for sure!

I have no issue with anything at all that you have said in your post, but I ask again
Where will these people be housed?

Some facts: number of Asylum seekers
The uk (2024) : 108,131
www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/stay-informed/explainers/top-facts-from-the-latest-statistics-on-refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum/#:~:text=People%20seeking%20asylum%20make%20up,%2C%20Iran%2C%20Bangladesh%20and%20Syria.

France (2023) 142,500
www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/01/23/france-received-record-number-of-asylum-requests-in-2023_6458119_7.html#:~:text=Around%20142%2C500%20people%20applied%20in,OFPRA)%20said%20in%20provisional%20figures.

Asylum Seekers, refugees, migrants call them what you will, are just people- and yes, the whole of the continent has a problem with mass migration.
With political instability and climate change, this is only going to get worse. Individual countries can’t tackle this on their own, it has to be done at a continental level.

The migrants themselves are just people- some are running from war or famine, others just looking for a better life. They are not evil, just ordinary humans, like you and me and our families.

I attended a French language for foreigners class here (I live in France).
The Syrian family- 3 generations running from the appalling violence of Diesh, the Marrocan and Algerian girls, fleeing forced marriage and domestic violence, a couple of Afgans and a couple of dozen African men from Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia and Mali.

These men were shipped into our small town after the French government cleared out the Jungle near Calais.

Most of the class tried hard with their French (it’s compulsory to learn and pass the test to B2 level) and gradually integrated into French culture.

I chatted to the African guys, most had some English. Why not stay in France - you get training here and more money than in the UK (I showed them the official uk government website). They didn’t believe me- the traffickers had told them they would each get a house, car, job and “English girls like men like us” ….

The traffickers are the problem- spreading lies and false hope. Tackle this misinformation, allow asylum seekers to apply before they cross the channel (cut off the traffickers money supply), stop the sales of these cheap boats, cooperate with our neighbours to catch and lock up the traffickers are some measures which could be used.

I know there is a shortage of housing, the NHS can’t cope ect, but this is not the fault of desperate people searching for a better, safer life. Or in the case of my Syrian friends, any life at all.

Look instead to the lack of investment, the waste (HS2 anyone?) and austerity enforced by previous generations and ask yourself just what have they spent the billions of £ of tax payers money on- not on a few thousand brown people arriving in boats that’s for sure!

Oreo

If accommodation is good enough for Service families then it’s good enough for anybody and all bases not in use now should be used for migrants.No doubt the people smugglers assure them they will be housed in hotels with many benefits.This government needs to distribute flyers on the coast in France telling them what the actual situation will be for them, military accommodation and few benefits.

The trouble is that the locals moan about asylum-seekers being accommodated in military housing, as I've witnessed locally.

Oreo

If accommodation is good enough for Service families then it’s good enough for anybody and all bases not in use now should be used for migrants.No doubt the people smugglers assure them they will be housed in hotels with many benefits.This government needs to distribute flyers on the coast in France telling them what the actual situation will be for them, military accommodation and few benefits.

This government needs to distribute flyers on the coast in France telling them what the actual situation will be for them, military accommodation and few benefits

Not just on the coast of France either. A friend who has lived in Turkey for many years tells me that young men there with families, jobs and a reasonable way of life are targeted by smuggling gangs and told what a wonderful life there is to be had in the UK. All geared to extracting money from bored young men seeking their fortune.

It's big business alright!

Enoch Powell being seen as a prophet

Maybe not a prophet but he certainly had a vision of what was to come. And judging from the stabbings and fights in our local park, he wasn't far off the mark.

vegansrock

The only long term way to stop migration from poor countries is to help improve conditions in those countries.

What do you think countries are doing, we are not the only country that sends billions in AID every year, have have done since goodness knows when. Where does that go I wonder.
The Chinese are the new colonialists, building infrastructure, railways ports, and mining, wonder why the African chaps aren't helping with the rebuilding, no skills perhaps. South Africa and Egypt, good University's and in other places no doubt. So those from there could get good education. They do train their own medics you know. Refused asylum in mainland Europe, let's go to the UK, they'll let us in without a hitch.

growstuff

Sarnia

Whitewavemark2

And the best way to do this would be to rejoin the EU.

This was always going to be a major issue for the U.K. post-Brexit - but many of us didn’t listen.

So a democratic vote to Leave should be ignored? Migrants have been flooding in since the end of WW2. Nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with Governments being unable to impose a fair yet rigorous immigration policy and making sure Border Control is fit for purpose. Plenty of talking but no action.
It's too late for Britain now. Enoch Powell must be spinning in his grave.

But the UK actually encouraged immigration to staff the NHS and London underground (amongst others)!

The UK does have an immigration policy - that's why so many people can't come to the country by regular means.

I worked in the NHS for 17 years with lovely people from all over the world. Your last sentence says it all. Those who don't apply through the proper channels should not be allowed to enter the UK. Make it very clear that using those methods will result in a swift turn around and not staying here at the taxpayers' expense.

LizzieDrip

^I am neither vile, racist nor Inhumane^

No, of course you’re not Shinamae.

👍🏻😉😁

Oreo

If accommodation is good enough for Service families then it’s good enough for anybody and all bases not in use now should be used for migrants.No doubt the people smugglers assure them they will be housed in hotels with many benefits.This government needs to distribute flyers on the coast in France telling them what the actual situation will be for them, military accommodation and few benefits.

And Service families had to pay rent for the privilege of living there!

I am neither vile, racist nor Inhumane

No, of course you’re not Shinamae.

If accommodation is good enough for Service families then it’s good enough for anybody and all bases not in use now should be used for migrants.No doubt the people smugglers assure them they will be housed in hotels with many benefits.This government needs to distribute flyers on the coast in France telling them what the actual situation will be for them, military accommodation and few benefits.

This from The Independent:

Hundreds of Afghan refugees have been “dumped” in UK military bases while ministers figure out where to house them, in a move condemned as the government’s “latest betrayal” of asylum seekers.

It's this kind of emotive headline which causes trouble. The Afghan refugees here were given accommodation in homes recently evacuated by Army families. Their children attended local schools, people welcomed them, helping with donations of warm clothing.
They are not illegal immigrants, of course
What will happen to them now as they contemplate an uncertain future I do not know as we've had a change of Government since.

Oreo

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I worry we’re doing too little too late Allira.
It really concerns me.

We don’t even have a robust plan and so I can envisage all this getting so much worse very quickly.

Summer and better weather will bring huge numbers. We cannot afford this madness. We desperately need a deterrent. Not a soundbite.

Absolutely.
For a start getting the French police to earn the megabucks we’re paying them, and then getting all the ex military bases ready to receive men, not families, and that’s where they stay while all the very many false pleas for asylum are considered.
Stop the hand wringing and get on with it.

Many military bases have housing as well as barracks so, if families arrive, they can be housed together in accommodation which was considered suitable for military families, so why it is not suitable for asylum seekers, I'm not sure.

Such accommodation near here has housed Afghan refugees and they were welcomed here.