Trans women and single-sex spaces

There are longstanding problems with the need for more public toilets for women. Go to any children’s concert for example and find women queueing with 2 or 3 children. It’s a truth long acknowledged that it’s likely boys up to age 8 or 9 will be with the women who don’t want to ‘risk’ letting the boys go into the gents unsupervised.
This is why women often make use of the gents but I’d bet the farm most would prefer more women only public toilets

Carlotta

^My husband says no one cares about this in men’s toilets as sometimes when there have been long lines at the women’s toilets there are women who come in to use the cubicles.^

Excellent! Trans woman have nothing to fear in using the biologically correct facilities then have they! Off they trot!

Love it! How very reassuring, no danger at all Syracute's husband has demonstrated that 'women' in the male toilets is not unusual or in any way a danger to said women. Transwomen please take note I'll tell DH he's a dinosaur who just hasn't noticed the procession of women he's been sharing the men's loo with!

Syracute did you read my follow up post? Fionne is a man, a transwoman, who knows that sex is biological, immutable and who respects women's spaces more than a lot of biological women, which is somewhat crazy. I'd hazard a guess that biological women choosing to use the male toilets isn't a common occurrence especially in the UK. Given the smaller queues for men's toilets surely transwomen would be first in line to use them if that was a major consideration? I asked my husband and he's never encountered a woman coming into the men's to use the cubicles in his entire life, in fact his comment was other than the odd 'rushes in desperate but mistaken' that's bs.

My husband says no one cares about this in men’s toilets as sometimes when there have been long lines at the women’s toilets there are women who come in to use the cubicles.

Excellent! Trans woman have nothing to fear in using the biologically correct facilities then have they! Off they trot!

LizzieDrip

I am consistent Rosie.

Somewhat confused that the transman you follow uses the men’s toilet space?

Surely, as a woman, she should use women’s spaces🤔

My husband says no one cares about this in men’s toilets as sometimes when there have been long lines at the women’s toilets there are women who come in to use the cubicles .

I really haven't seen anything about protests at pride events can you pleas link to reports of these protests

This?

A supporter of the LGB Alliance was escorted away by police from a protest during Manchester Pride after crowds began chanting “trans lives matter” towards him.

The LGB Alliance describe themselves as an organisation who ‘advance lesbian, gay and bisexual rights’ but their actions have often been seen by some to oppose the transgender community.

During the Manchester Pride Protest on Saturday (August 28), which is believed to have been attended by more than 1,500 people, Alexander Bramham attended the event in a t-shirt and hat both sporting the LGB Alliance logo. Demonstrators at the event said that protesters began chanting support for the transgender community when Alexander's outfit was seen amongst the crowds. As far as I’m aware, he wasn’t at the protest or the march,” Will Belshah, who attended the event, told the M.E.N.

In a statement, the LGB Alliance said they felt the supporter was ‘harassed and evicted’ by demonstrators. ^ LGB Alliance defends the rights of lesbians, gays and bisexuals, whose rights in law are based on sexual orientation not gender identity,” the group said.^ “It’s ludicrous that a gay man now can’t assert those rights at a Pride march without being harassed and evicted. “This shocking incident shows that today’s LGBTQ+ movement is dominated by gender identity extremism.

“Those who take a different view, including trans dissenters, are hounded out

Emily Hamilton, a trans woman, tweeted, “At this stage an LGB Alliance t shirt is as welcome at pride as a ‘God hates f*gs’ one. Our LGBTQ+ community knows hate when they see it.”

So a gay man was hounded out of the gay pride rally because of his t shirt and wrong-think. Tolerant lot these trans protesters.

Galaxy

I am sure Wyllow can fight her own corner but she is one of the good guys she just hasn't been thru what we have been thru. It is good to have you here Carlotta, you remind me of MN women.

What exactly have you been through, though ?

Time to work together for a safer future for all perhaps ....

That is a very patronising thing to say Luminance and I think you must realise this.

Basically along came a group of men who insisted they have the right to take over womens spaces sports jobs, and worse in my view, influenced schools to change the curriculum and preach an ideology that is encouraging vulnerable young people to mis understand and fear the body they have. Creating total mayhem in society.

Now your expecting everyone else to help mend the problem?

That's the same selfish mentality that helped bring all this about in the first place.

In fact there are no rights lost by anyone wishing to live however they wish. None, and never have been.
So the protests are misplaced at best.

Luminance

Protests have often gone too far, people committed arson and placed bombs in the name of the suffragettes and deaths resulted. That is not what we think of when we think of women who fought for us overall.

For all your professed impartiality and kindness can you explain why you're very quick to jump on 'violence' by women or those seeking to protect women's rights but
As someone mentioned, most of these protesters are young and have been used to certain rights of entry so now feel they have lost something. I would hope it will settle. There have also been protests at pride events, I would hope they would now stop. I really haven't seen anything about protests at pride events can you pleas link to reports of these protests? I do remember when lesbians tried to make the point that lesbians were females sexually attracted to other females at a pride event they were led away by the police presence.
Will you comment on the appalling banners and chants by TRAs at the protests this weekend?

So you condemn the trans and TRA who offer violence and threats or other damage towards women.
That’s good to read, Luminance.

Working together involves both sides. I look forward to seeing a willingness to work together that doesn’t involve invading women’s safe spaces, sports etc.
I’ll certainly be happy to mention seeing that when . . .

Namsnanny

I wouldn't have supported violence then or now Luminance

Lets be clear though, men have the advantage when it comes to intimidation bullying, throwing a punch etc.

Quite right. We don't support violence, we simply know there is always an element or potential for it in any protest. That doesn't mean overall the protest is not peaceful nor worthy. As someone mentioned, most of these protesters are young and have been used to certain rights of entry so now feel they have lost something. I would hope it will settle. There have also been protests at pride events, I would hope they would now stop. Time to work together for a safer future for all perhaps.

I wouldn't have supported violence then or now Luminance

Lets be clear though, men have the advantage when it comes to intimidation bullying, throwing a punch etc.

also whether and how the police or other bodies can "enforce" if required. It really is not a matter to pay "Catch the politician out", its serious real stuff affecting many lives.

Carlotta

He's probably still trying to figure out which one's have the cervix; who has the penis and can everyone have one of each Namsnanny.

I think there are no quick answers as how to move forward from this ground breaking ruling and Starmer is wise not to give off the cuff responses.

There is, for example, the whole question of the status and meanings now for the GRA and GRC's in terms of civil partnerships and marriages. There is the question of which groups (like for example a gym) have to follow which laws and whether guidance has to be given and enforced or whether organisations can interpret the act as they best see fit. There is the whole question of how the NHS is to respond. There are issues about funding third spaces oof trans people are to be given fair access to many public spaces.

I could go on but these are just some examples. There is also a report due in the summer from the Equalities people which has committed to laying down more specific guidelines to back up the Wednesday decision and it might be wise to not pre-empt what they have to say.

Protests have often gone too far, people committed arson and placed bombs in the name of the suffragettes and deaths resulted. That is not what we think of when we think of women who fought for us overall.

That made me chuckle Carlotta . Not that any other party has a good grounding in the subject, tbh

He's probably still trying to figure out which one's have the cervix; who has the penis and can everyone have one of each Namsnanny.

Chin chin! 🥂🍾

I think it's worth noting that as yet KS hasn't made an official statement about the ruling.

If he actually reinforced his earlier statement quoted earlier on it would help.

That's a lovely compliment, thank you Galaxy. I'm just about done with the male dominance fuckwittery that's beleaguered women for too damned long. I'm cool with the "ordinary, quiet living trans people just going about their lives" but now's the time for them to buckle up and get their shtick together and start getting their own spaces; stop riding on the backs of women's achievements.

But I also love carlotta who recommends many of the media I consume.
I may have had wine

I'll second that, Galaxy.

I am now worried that sounded patronising, what I mean is Wyllow argues fairly and I appreciate that.

I am sure Wyllow can fight her own corner but she is one of the good guys she just hasn't been thru what we have been thru. It is good to have you here Carlotta, you remind me of MN women.

I’d be happy to see just the violent protesters, the p* artists and the threatening poster carriers being arrested and charged or even put in jail (except there’s no room). As long as it’s understood that carrying a threatening placard, no matter how peacefully you are carrying it will be seen as violence.
It certainly would be if it was an anti trans poster -they’d be up in arms about it.

Then again, a trans thought correct to arrest someone for using a biologically correct pronoun because he didn’t like it.

Is coercing others to lie (under threat of arrest) to suit you considered OK by any posters on GN now?