Trans women and single-sex spaces

Probably because the wording of the original Gender Recognition Act was not clear about sex-based rights. I’m sure there will be some initial problems but it’s a big step in the right direction.

I feel quite sad for trans women who gave quietly lived alongside the rest of us for decades. However, this recent influx of aggressive males pretending to be women to hijack our spaces in order to feed their fetish has to be dealt with firmly. Every organisation has bent over backwards to accommodate them and god only knows why. It is about time this was sorted

Wise words Grandmabatty.

Well I for one feel sad for the poor nurse who has been suspended after referring to a male ‘transgender’ patient as he.

This individual is a convicted paedophile, handcuffed to a prison guard who lunged at her, screaming racist abuse, yet because he wished to identify as a woman the nurse was deemed to be in the wrong.

Utter madness.

A glimmer of sense at long last. Let us hope that women’s safety stops being seen as less important than somebody’s “feelings”.

JenniferEccles

Well I for one feel sad for the poor nurse who has been suspended after referring to a male ‘transgender’ patient as he.

This individual is a convicted paedophile, handcuffed to a prison guard who lunged at her, screaming racist abuse, yet because he wished to identify as a woman the nurse was deemed to be in the wrong.

Utter madness.

Totally agree JE

It's a start but a certificate doesn't make you a woman. Having laws based on magical thinking is not good for society.

I agree Galaxy. Any space for women shouldn't be entered into by any intact men regardless of whether or not they have a GRC.

Grandmabatty

I feel quite sad for trans women who gave quietly lived alongside the rest of us for decades. However, this recent influx of aggressive males pretending to be women to hijack our spaces in order to feed their fetish has to be dealt with firmly. Every organisation has bent over backwards to accommodate them and god only knows why. It is about time this was sorted

Where can I find confirmation about this influx of aggressive males pretending to be women to hijack our spaces in order to feed their fetish? I, and I would guess, many others, think this is all in the heads of middle-age and elderly women on internet forums, etc.

That doesn't mean calling changing spaces unisex or whatever is a bad thing - perhaps it will finally stop the hysteria.

Galaxy

It's a start but a certificate doesn't make you a woman. Having laws based on magical thinking is not good for society.

No, it is not. Unfortunately, that is a concept that some people appear to have great difficulty accepting these days.

Perhaps you should take more notice of the news PoliticsNerd where there's been plenty of examples.

At the risk of sounding controversial, and given some parts of shower areas in particular, usually quite separate from changing rooms. These are places where women and GIRLS could feel vulnerable. As stated before on such threads depending on when you go, it's possible to find yourself the only person there. So I'm not sure even a GRC would assuage disquiet about an 'in tact' male being in there with you at such a time. I'm not suggesting trans women should use the men's, but given a possible risk factor for females, or simply feeling vulnerable, imo a third area would be preferable.

Are you stuck in 2016 politics nerd calling women hysterical doesn't really work anymore. The world has moved on.

Imagine coming on to a forum for the over 50s and trying to use the words middle aged and elderly as insults.

Women have been fighting this for years. Transwomen have been enabled to enter women's sports, female changing rooms, women's prisons and other female only places by people who should know better.

Some of these problems are now being addressed when enlightened people realise that nobody can change sex and safe places for women are there for a reason.

I don't think Michelle Dewberry was hysterical finding who she described as a man in a Virgin Active changing room. Asking that organisation why that was, their reply along the lines of 'endeavouring to be inclusive' so she voted with her feet. When I read comments supporting the inclusivity of transwomen in areas where women may be undressing, fully undressed, I wonder if in fact they transpose themselves to scenarios beyond women's public toilets where you may just be side by side at wash basins.

Smileless2012

Perhaps you should take more notice of the news PoliticsNerd where there's been plenty of examples.

There have indeed - and there are currently some very high profile court cases and tribunals taking place too, which have received considerable publicity.
This is not some 'middle-aged hysteria' - it is an issue which affects the safety of all women and girls. Us, our daughters, granddaughters and future generations.
If a man exposes himself in the street, that is an offence - if he does so in a female changing room, claiming that he too is a woman, then anyone objecting is likely to find themselves in trouble not him.

I watched Professor Robert Winston explain that it is impossible to change our sex. He said you can remove parts of the body and add to the body but this does not alter our biological sex.

Then Fiona Bruce was saying many people disagree with him.

He is the person with in depth knowledge of the human body. I am with him all the way.

He added he had no problem with trans people and neither do I. It is the very strident (can’t think of a better word) trans community who frighten me with their rhetoric.

It is a start but I agree with Galaxy that a certificate doesn't change your sex. It's a legal fiction. The EHRC should have carried on and explained the full equality act whereby even someone with a GRC can be denied access to single sex spaces where their provision is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. eg sports or counselling groups, or other areas where women are vulnerable.
Nurses have been suspended and punished for not wanting to strip down in their changing rooms in front of a male ie a transwoman. The Darlington nurses were told if they didn't like it they could change in what was essentially a small disused storeroom, while the male got to keep the entire changing room to himself. Sandie Peggie in Scotland was suspended because she objected to changing in front of a self ID doctor who says he is a 'biological female'. That's one doctor whose medical knowledge would seem to be somewhat lacking. Her employment tribunal is due to recommence in July.

I don't want to be all doom and gloom though, it is a start, and we have made unbelievable progress.

Galaxy

Imagine coming on to a forum for the over 50s and trying to use the words middle aged and elderly as insults.

Imagine not having read any news about aggressive males pretending to be women.

the annexation of a significant portion of the territory of another

Although usually reserved for wars between states, if you go where you’re not supposed to be it’s an act of aggression, especially, but not only, if it causes distress or harm to the people rightfully there.

Other examples, which some might find easier to understand are squatters, identity cloners or on a larger scale, the invasion of Ukraine.

The report in the Sunday Telegraph states that the Code being scrutinised by ministers and lawyers, 'will heavily base its protections of philosophical belief on the outcome of the the Maya Forstater case... .in which an employment tribunal ruled that the belief that transwomen are not real women is a belief that must be protected.

This phrase disturbed me, although it may be the journalist's interpretation, but it is not a philosophical belief that a transwoman is not a woman, it is a fact, not something governed by possession of a certificate.

PoliticsNerd

Grandmabatty

I feel quite sad for trans women who gave quietly lived alongside the rest of us for decades. However, this recent influx of aggressive males pretending to be women to hijack our spaces in order to feed their fetish has to be dealt with firmly. Every organisation has bent over backwards to accommodate them and god only knows why. It is about time this was sorted

Where can I find confirmation about this influx of aggressive males pretending to be women to hijack our spaces in order to feed their fetish? I, and I would guess, many others, think this is all in the heads of middle-age and elderly women on internet forums, etc.

That doesn't mean calling changing spaces unisex or whatever is a bad thing - perhaps it will finally stop the hysteria.

How rude. How judgemental. Middle aged and elderly women? I cannot stand this labelling about people about whom you know nothing.

It hardly makes any sense when mothers of young boys 7ish, have to send their male children into the men's locker rooms alone, but an adult male can be permitted to use the women's changing areas and showers.

The team mates of Leah Thomas were castigated for not wanting to change along side that person because it made them feel vulnerable and collectively told to use the women's toilets, whilst that person had the locker room to themselves. One entitled individual. There are of course the majority of transwomen who respect women and don't threaten them in the way individuals such as Lea Thomas did and has pushed every boundary to trounce women's rights to privacy.