Trans women and single-sex spaces

Luminance

I think that does rather answer my question doesn't it. This is not feminism.

How do you define feminism, if not a system of thinking that foregrounds the safety of and seeks equality for the female sex.

I have a sense of deja vu.

I think that does rather answer my question doesn't it. This is not feminism.

Luminance

It's like conversing with politicians. This is not political. It is not political to ask you if you care about trans people keeping their protections and being able to feel safe.

Oh definitely! You haven't answered any questions put to you, just deflection, ignore, deviate..... are you aiming to go into politics?
I'd like all people to feel safe. For women that means not having to share some spaces with men. I care that lesbians aren't told that not wanting sex with a 'lesbian with a penis' is transphobic and bigoted. Do you?

Smileless2012

I and many others have said that the lives of ordinary quiet trans people have been impacted Luminance but they've been impacted by those who believe their 'rights' supersede those of biological women and those who've supported them.

Exactly. This new ruling is not going to make a difference, as far as I can see.

And, an apology to the nurse who was abused, called the N word. How could it be possible what happened to her

Glasweegran

Rosie51

Jackiest

Rosie51. Yes but what is the definition of Biological female.

Sun is the star we orbit, Water is H2O Cow has a known DNA. All these things are defined and can be tested for. What is the test for woman? I accept that there is one I am just asking what it is.

You accept that cow has a known DNA but think humans don't, how very odd. Court cases have been decided on the basis of human DNA, do you think that's all been guesswork or a toss of the dice?

DNA does not say if you are male or female, if it comes to chromasomes there are at least 18 variations of what that might be and you would need chromatography to find out for each person... . JKR's "large gametes" definitions doesn't work either people because plenty of women are not currently fertile, and you would have to do blood tests to get at that one anyway... not handy when trying to keep someone out a changing room.... around 1 in 1,500 babies born is of indeterminate sex at the time of birth... so what are you doing with them... pick one and hope you are right? That didn't work out well for anyone before now.

around 1 in 1,500 babies born is of indeterminate sex at the time of birth... so what are you doing with them... pick one and hope you are right? That didn't work out well for anyone before now.

Are you totally unaware or just pretending to be? When a baby is born with indeterminate genitalia a DNA test is done to establish the child's sex. What do you think they do nowadays if not a DNA test? In the past it was best guess, with a predominance of choosing female because simulating female genitalia is easier than male.

As for the large gametes versus small gametes, humans like all mammals come in two varieties, male and female. Our bodies are designed to follow a pathway to produce either large or small gametes. That some bodies don't develop to allow the production of these gametes doesn't change the fact of their sex. Humans are organised to be binocular and bipedal. Sometimes people are born without eyes or missing a leg or part thereof. That doesn't diminish that they should have had a full working set.

A positive result in my opinion. Let’s hope the 4 nurses and the single nurse who have been in the news can now get their jobs back.

Who are you suggesting does not ‘care about trans people ….. being able to feel safe.’

Its not political to ask if you care about women, their protections and being able to feel safe.

It's like conversing with politicians. This is not political. It is not political to ask you if you care about trans people keeping their protections and being able to feel safe.

I and many others have said that the lives of ordinary quiet trans people have been impacted Luminance but they've been impacted by those who believe their 'rights' supersede those of biological women and those who've supported them.

That post at 12.59 really is nonsense Luminance.
they will be afraid right now . When were you appointed spokesperson for ‘them’

Well now it will be interesting to see if actor Daniel Radcliffe will still continue his poisonous attitudes towards J K Rowling..........if the Harry Potter author hadn't 'made' him then he would probably be an obscure bit-part actor, spending most of his time 'resting'.

A prime example of biting the hand that fed him.

Rosie51

Jackiest

Rosie51. Yes but what is the definition of Biological female.

Sun is the star we orbit, Water is H2O Cow has a known DNA. All these things are defined and can be tested for. What is the test for woman? I accept that there is one I am just asking what it is.

You accept that cow has a known DNA but think humans don't, how very odd. Court cases have been decided on the basis of human DNA, do you think that's all been guesswork or a toss of the dice?

DNA does not say if you are male or female, if it comes to chromasomes there are at least 18 variations of what that might be and you would need chromatography to find out for each person... . JKR's "large gametes" definitions doesn't work either people because plenty of women are not currently fertile, and you would have to do blood tests to get at that one anyway... not handy when trying to keep someone out a changing room.... around 1 in 1,500 babies born is of indeterminate sex at the time of birth... so what are you doing with them... pick one and hope you are right? That didn't work out well for anyone before now.

I think it is rather short sighted to state that ordinary quiet trans people have not been impacted. Of course they have. On social media, in looking for a bathroom, in looking for employment. In many various ways. I'm truly surprised anyone would think otherwise. They will be afraid right now. We just put them alone in their own box hoping that the law continues to recognise them as a protected group and feeling women are against them. Are we?

Still avoiding answering our questionsLuminance despite your questions being answered?
I'm very happy with the Supreme Court's judgement.

I am perfectly happy with the court's decision Luminance. It's your posts that I have an issue with.

They really are not "easily bought" waiting lists years long to get to a process that takes more years and costs thousands, just so your certificates and passport match who you are. Doesn't affect anything more than that.

I'm not aware that anyone has attempted to prevent trans people from living quietly and comfortably Luminance. Those that have in the past, do so in the present and wish to do so in the future are the ones who've been harmed the most by trans activists and their supporters.

drat, bold fail there!

Are people not entirely happy with the court's decision and feel that it is not enough in some way? I am rather confused by these answers.

Luminance

Rather than pick apart my question for language, could someone please attempt an answer. Perhaps we're I to ask simply. May we now go back to allowing trans people to live quietly and comfortably? Or are there further protections people would like to take from them?

When did we stop allowing transpeople to live quietly and comfortably? It was when Stonewall aligned with TRAs and began insisting that men can just say they are women and have that accepted that the problems started. They were not quiet or comfortable - they threatened feminists and anyone who refused to give up women's protections and rights to safety.

How do you think that this ruling will impact on transpeople who want to live quietly and comfortably?

No answers to our questions then Luminance?
I'm wishing for transpeople to live happy fulfilled lives just as I wish for anybody. I also wish for them to acknowledge they can't and haven't changed their sex and so in *areas where for safety, dignity or fairness" sex matters that they comply by excluding themselves.

As Rosie has correctly pointed out Luminance the law hasn't been changed. Clarification was needed for those who conflate biological sex and gender.

No rights have ever been taken away from transgender, it's the additional right that some believe they should have that have been fought against.

Biological sex cannot be changed. It is not about affording women their birth gender protections in single sex spaces and likely sports too. Gender is a social construct; sex is biological and cannot be changed.

True, Rosie. And there is always talk about people wanting to live their lives quietly, when they have never been the issue - in fact, 'quiet' transpeople have suffered alongside women since the TRAs got going.