Trans women and single-sex spaces

Politicsnerd What's not correct Madgran? If I have misinterpreted something it would be more useful if you explained what and how, surely

Your "unravelling" of my post obviously! You asked if it was correct. I told you it wasnt! 🙄

Rosie51 You are correct in noting that I agree some of the so-called evidence in this thread is unproven or misleading. I also acknowledge that this may well undermine your argument.

However, I do not believe this reflects my stance regarding the Times article either way. It is unfortunate that you seem to think that those who support an argument you are attempting to put forward must all lack the ability to think critically. That perspective is quite disheartening.

Nevertheless, if I come to a conclusion about the Times article, I will not let the aggressive tone of some posts directed at me influence my interpretation of the article itself.

I am afraid I find the statement living as a woman deeply sexist. What does it mean? dh is at work at the moment, I have just walked the dog, we are both wearing trousers which one of us is living as a woman.

You're losing the argument, I haven't made any unsubstantiated claim, the NHS hospital rape is in the public domain, I can't do links, Google it for heaven's sake, Allira has provided pointers up thread. How deep an understanding does one have to have surrounding a case of transwoman rapes woman in hospital and then a year goes by before the NHS will admit that happened.

There are so many ways for us to live our lives as women not a single way - so I wouldn't ever say "pretending" to be a woman, but rather living a life out as one of these ways, with obvious limitations (such as sport and so on).

Rosie51
I’ll be going back to see if PN required proof from Glasweegran, but I’m busy having a boring day right now, so it’ll have to wait.

As boys from age 7 upwards weren't allowed in the women's changing rooms at our local pool, I used to have to let DS go in there on his own. I'd dry and dress as quickly as possible then stand outside the men's calling to him and having a chat with him!

"Strange woman hovers outside men's changing rooms."

Rosie51

PoliticsNerd

Where is your proof of any of that TerriBull?

PoliticsNerd true to form requires solid evidence which s/he could research online from everybody except Glasweegran whose post is accepted unquestionably. I begin to wonder why............

Generally in a discussion we provide credibility to individual arguments, and facilitate a deeper understanding of the topic by referencing that argument.

Or is your intention just to have a shouting match, denying others the right to either agree or disagree with what is, without reference, is either an unsubstantiated claim, simply an opinion, or a fallacy ?

Macadia

I would never dare send a young boy into a mens room out of fear

You think some men can be harmful then.
Pretending to be a woman doesnt remove the potential for some men to harm females, which is why they shouldn’t be in female safe spaces.

Madgran77

Politicsnerd I didnt ask you for an explanation. I was just checking that my unravelling of you post was correct. I dud ask for facts as they seem to be sparce to none existent

It's not correct. And I'm not engaging in any explanation as a result of your misinterpretation

What's not correct Madgran? If I have misinterpreted something it would be more useful if you explained what and how, surely.

High profile trans woman, Caitlyn Jenner, has on numerous occasions supported the rights of natal women in both the contexts of "women only spaces" and "women only sport"

However I will say one additional thing. -this friend is cautious about speaking out because she is easily "Tarred with the same brush" as TERF.

To be clear, I only know one transwoman well, not that I only know one moderate one!

The trans lobby as you describe it does not represent trans people as a whole. But get all the publicity.

I only know one transwoman who in no way approves the aggression as do people s/he is in contact with and the no debate stance so cant speak widely except to say they do deserve our consideration and respect in this debate.

Cover ups don’t benefit anyone do they Wyllow.

But the trans lobby have promoted cover-ups by their ‘No debate” mantra and their aggressive attitude to anyone raising concerns as to the abusive actions of males identifying as transwomen.

By all means let us have open recording of all abuses perpetrated in the name of trans rights.

I’m all for truth and honesty.

Sorry - typos - GRC not GRA!

Reports from USA do record a higher incidence of both domestic and "Street" attacks on trans women, but the studies are not "official" because like in the UK, we don't record sufficient information, and I'm not sure how we could.

I do feel that the trans women I have concerns for, everyday ordinary lives, are not served at all by cover ups.

Quite the opposite. I do really hope that introducing the GRA rule hospitals and other institutions are not forced into impossible situations as they are atm.

One of the problems with this is how long it takes to get treatments and GRA recognition - people can wait up to 3 to 6 years after they are 18 to engage in the process. I feel this wait only brings out frustration and anger and potential trouble.

Politicsnerd I didnt ask you for an explanation. I was just checking that my unravelling of you post was correct. I dud ask for facts as they seem to be sparce to none existent

It's not correct. And I'm not engaging in any explanation as a result of your misinterpretation

Well that bit of evidence is about as chilly as it gets isn’t it?

But women have always had difficulty in achieving justice and truth of the fact of male abuse and violence.

The trans movement is just another facet of the same including it’s denial of the right to be heard.

Thanks for the clarification Allira, a horrendous double ordeal for the victim.

PoliticsNerd

Where is your proof of any of that TerriBull?

PoliticsNerd true to form requires solid evidence which s/he could research online from everybody except Glasweegran whose post is accepted unquestionably. I begin to wonder why............

TerriBull

"The trans lobby has effectively prevented its reporting happening"

As in the case of the woman who was raped in hospital a couple of years ago, but according to the Police that couldn't be so as the alleged assailant was a trans woman, but hey lets not get too het up about that and what Lathyrus described or we could be accused of entering the Court of Moral Outrage, God forbid

Yes, I remember that case, Terribull, it was brought up in the House of Lords by Baroness Nicholson.

It was the hospital which denied it could have happened as, according to them, there was no male person on the ward.
Nicholson told parliament’s upper chamber that “it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that actually there was a male on the ward and yes this rape happened,” and this only because of evidence captured on CCTV footage.

I believe Baroness Nicholson did what she could in this matter because of the obfuscation surrounding the case at the time.

PoliticsNerd

Where is your proof of any of that TerriBull?

The case of the woman raped in hospital was well publicised when the NHS was finally made to admit that it happened and that they had concealed the sex of the perpetrator.

You can find it online. Or do you just ignore any factual “proof” because it doesn’t fit your beliefs?

Where is your proof of any of that TerriBull?