Trans women and single-sex spaces

If you yourself are a transwoman, or have a very close relative who is a transwoman I suppose that would affect your perspective. David Tennant is vociferous on this subject and has, reputedly, two transgender children. I can understand anyone wanting to defend their child's beliefs but science, especially biology, doesn't actually care about 'feelings or beliefs' it is based in fact not fiction. Anyone can deny facts as much as they want, it doesn't actually change the facts, even if politicians agree with you. Galileo was imprisoned for saying the scientific fact that the earth rotates around the sun because it opposed the Church's belief that it was the other way around. Who was right? Science or belief.

The people who have caused the problems for women and non confrontational trans are TW and TRA.
You say they look like “you and me”, so they shouldn’t be in female spaces.
But evidently, having to rely on male honesty isn’t going to work, especially when you say you support their dishonesty, Syracute.

But if men aren’t safe for Transwomen, whom whatever they look like, are men, how can you say they are safe for women, Syracute?

I think that there are trans women who certainly do pass as women by whatever social standards are being judged here, they just didn't identify themselves to you or place themselves up for scrutiny on social media. The same goes for trans men.

Nor me Allira! I may not be an oil painting but I look nothing like Izzard, Isla Bryson, Alex Drummond, Tickle the 'transwoman' in Australia et al. Syracute it is disingenuous of you to even vaguely suggest that transwomen look like biological women when with very few exceptions who have had major feminising surgeries costing many, many thousands of pounds they absolutely don't.

Syracute

Mollygo

Seems Nadia Whittome agrees that men can be dangerous, since even she feels transwomen would feel unsafe in toilets where men are.

Because they look no different than you and me !

Well, I'm not sure what you look like Syracute but I can assure you I look nothing like Eddie Izzard, who now identifies as a transwoman having been confused about his identity for decades and has adopted the name Suzy.

Mollygo

Seems Nadia Whittome agrees that men can be dangerous, since even she feels transwomen would feel unsafe in toilets where men are.

Because they look no different than you and me !

Seems Nadia Whittome agrees that men can be dangerous, since even she feels transwomen would feel unsafe in toilets where men are.

Madgran77
The only point I’m making is that it isn’t only TW or other males who are waving placards, but also women.
They shouldn’t be there, any of them, but it’s disappointing to find women supporting males agains females.

They’ve vandalised Brian Clough’s statue in Nottingham. Why???

Mollygo

Madgran77

Syracute
You won’t know they are there.

Um if you mean those standing outside toilets with placards then it would be very hard not to know they are there!

But Madgran77, some might be female TRA who think it’s right to ignore the rule and encourage males who want to break the rule.
We have seen on here that they exist.

I don't understand your point Mollygo.

Yes I expect at least some of them are. But whichever they are if they ate standing there with placards one is hardly going to "not know they are there"!

Madgran77

Syracute
You won’t know they are there.

Um if you mean those standing outside toilets with placards then it would be very hard not to know they are there!

But Madgran77, some might be female TRA who think it’s right to ignore the rule and encourage males who want to break the rule.
We have seen on here that they exist.

Syracute

You won’t know they are there .

Um if you mean those standing outside toilets with placards then it would be very hard not to know they are there!

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Going forward, I hope ‘chest feeding’ and ‘birthing person’ etc is outlawed now in hospitals.. Also I am a woman NOT a c!s woman - that really offends me.

Oh, I think those definitions will and should be one of the first things to go. Medically speaking of course it is necessary to know if someone is transgender, that's a different matter. Never liked or supported the idea I should be labelled a cis women.

Syracute
I am talking about women , all women . Transgender women as well.

What does that actually mean?

Transgender if you mean TW are not women, no matter how untruthfully it is claimed that they are.

Transgender, if you mean Transmen are female. So . . .
The ruling is, that only females are
women. It shouldn’t have been necessary except for the lies which have become common place among some.

You’ve already said that you support men breaking the rule, rather than supporting females, so what is your post
supposed to mean?

Going forward, I hope ‘chest feeding’ and ‘birthing person’ etc is outlawed now in hospitals.. Also I am a woman NOT a c!s woman - that really offends me.

Syracute Apart from being the law it is biological fact that there are two sexes which are immutable. How any woman can deny her own sex is beyond me, pandering to the patriarchy just takes us back to grim times. You'll be advocating for scold's bridles next to shut up those mouthy dissenters.

Syracute

Mollygo

The whole subject is ridiculous . Let’s not go back to the dark ages.

Syracute, but you have gone back to the dark ages, where men decided what women could or could not have or do.

Choosing to support males to break rules designed to protect females is a strange view of democracy.

You have said you will choose which rules you won’t follow because you don’t like them. Definitely a Trump behaviour.

The problem is that it makes Trump untrustworthy. Who knows what rules he, or others who are picky about rules will also choose not to apply?

I am talking about women , all women . Transgender women as well .

The law as clarified (which shouldn't have been needed) by the Supreme Court of the UK says transwomen are not women. If by transgender women you mean females who present as males then you're quite correct, they are women.

Mollygo

^The whole subject is ridiculous . Let’s not go back to the dark ages.^

Syracute, but you have gone back to the dark ages, where men decided what women could or could not have or do.

Choosing to support males to break rules designed to protect females is a strange view of democracy.

You have said you will choose which rules you won’t follow because you don’t like them. Definitely a Trump behaviour.

The problem is that it makes Trump untrustworthy. Who knows what rules he, or others who are picky about rules will also choose not to apply?

I am talking about women , all women . Transgender women as well .

Yes it will be up to the green party, they may want to look at how disastrous ot has been for others, I am just watching the debacle with disbelief.

Syracute

You won’t know they are there .

Are these men invisible?

You won’t know they are there .

What is supposed to be the difference I wonder

Isn't it obvious? Only women can have abortions so they need to stop their demonstrations, sit down and stop making a fuss. But when it's the menz who are demonstrating outside toilets or anywhere else that's OK. Because they're male.

Mollygo

^It’s not a victory for an increase in unpleasant actions against trans people. We will not tolerate that.^
But will they tolerate the increase in unpleasant actions against women?

Standing outside women's toilets with placards .....well apparently noone can stand outside abortion clinics and pray so how come it's ok to stand with placards outside womens toilets? What is supposed to be the difference I wonder

LizzieDrip

Galaxy

I wonder if it is about to end the career of Maggie Chapman, we should keep some sort of record of the politicians and organisations that it has destroyed.

Why would you want to do that?

Its up to the Green Party and the constituents?