Trans women and single-sex spaces

Galaxy

So radio 4 this morning the government has welcomed the supreme courts judgement, single sex spaces are by biological space and they will work with the EHRC to produce the statutory guidance necessary. Presumably the labour government are now hateful and far right.

I welcome this.

Also from Sky News just now

"Rare consensus on 'completely unacceptable' scenes at trans rights protest that damaged statues
Labour and the Conservatives have both condemned protestors that damaged statues and waved offensive placards on the weekend as "completely unacceptable".

"Stephen Morgan condemned the protestors this morning on Sky News.
The education minister said he hoped there would be “police action” over “unacceptable” language used at the trans rights protest in London.
Morgan said: “It’s completely unacceptable language to be used, and obviously any matters that break the law should be reported to the police, and hopefully police action is taken.”

"The Metropolitan Police has confirmed it is investigating and has officers trawling back through CCTV footage.
No arrests were made at the time, with the protest largely peaceful.

Lathyrus3

I say nope too.

Nope to men in women’s spaces.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

And now the law says I can.

Succinctly put. 👏👏👏

That’s a nope from me too.

Tickle v giggle is enlightening reading with regard to the situation in Australia. They have so far done exactly the opposite of the supreme Court judgement. There are some brave women fighting for womens rights in Australia.

it's not an issue bad typo, sorry

Nanna8 I'm assuming you mean bit ab issue in Australia? How do you know it's not an issue in UK? As a matter of interest, what is the law regarding trans access in Australia! It would be interesting to see how others deal with it

I say nope too.

Nope to men in women’s spaces.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

And now the law says I can.

Syracute

Just nope .

You can say 'nope' as much as you like but you have declared yourself and shown your Trump-like similarities. Just because you choose different laws to break doesn't stop you being a law breaker. So just yes.

So radio 4 this morning the government has welcomed the supreme courts judgement, single sex spaces are by biological space and they will work with the EHRC to produce the statutory guidance necessary. Presumably the labour government are now hateful and far right.

I don’t think it is that much of an issue in most places. There are male ,female and ‘unisex’ places just routinely. The unisex ones tend to smell and are usually not so clean so I avoid them.

We don’t have to go back to the Dark Ages (when people of both sexes will have relieved themselves outside) to find the ‘urinary leash’ which restricted how far women could venture in urban environments because of a combination of a lack of safe spaces and decency laws.

I agree that we shouldn’t be going back to that.

The whole subject is ridiculous . Let’s not go back to the dark ages.

Syracute, but you have gone back to the dark ages, where men decided what women could or could not have or do.

Choosing to support males to break rules designed to protect females is a strange view of democracy.

You have said you will choose which rules you won’t follow because you don’t like them. Definitely a Trump behaviour.

The problem is that it makes Trump untrustworthy. Who knows what rules he, or others who are picky about rules will also choose not to apply?

Just nope .

Syracute

Rosie51

Syracute I am happy for these women to break these laws something you have in common with Trump, he likes to pick and choose which laws are to be obeyed or not.

I have nothing in common with Trump who does not support democracy . Same could be said of this thread .

Well you actually do have that in common with Trump or are you saying he believes in obeying every law whether he likes it or not? You can't declare that it's OK to break those laws you don't like, which is what I understand is Trump's view too and then declare you're not doing the same as him. It really isn't a good look. On the radio that absolute numbskull James O'Brien labelled everyone who liked the Supreme Court's clarification of the law as 'being on the same team as Donald Trump'
Respecting democracy is obeying the law of the land, not choosing which bits you will obey and which bits you won't. Isn't that what thieves, fraudsters and murderers do? If you don't like a law then peacefully campaign for its removal or change, the Assisted Dying Act is one such example. Nobody said "well the law says we can't assist someone in their suicide, but we'll do it anyway" they asked for a change in the law. That's democracy

Mollygo

Syracute

Hopefully the new ruling will keep out those TW who have caused the problems, but I doubt it.

This time it will be TW objecting to some TW being allowed to break the rule and I suspect they and TRA will be monitoring this quite closely.

To give an exemplar, I’ve seen this happen in school, when a rule has been applied that said No children allowed indoors at playtime.
That was fine until a neurodiverse child was allowed to be indoors at playtime with the TA, and even more shocking, another child was allowed to be there with him to try and develop social skills.
Then some children and their parents were up in arms about the perceived unfair treatment.

As for your Who will be policing this?

Soooo Déjà vu.

It shouldn’t need to be policed.

Will you be happy if much needed resources are taken from elsewhere to police those men who feel they have the right to contravene a rule just because it protects females?

Why does anything need to be policed?
Because some people think the law/rules don't apply to them.

The whole subject is ridiculous . Let’s not go back to the dark ages .

Grannylynj

My trans friend had his tackle removed nd insisted on showing me, despy

You cal yourself a friend ? I think not .

Mollygo

The vast majority of females would probably be found to support the ruling on the 16th.

I don’t have figures, but I think that would truly be a vast majority.

We don’t even have verifiable figures for those who are satisfied or unhappy with their transition. As Carlotta says, Dr Hakeem is only talking about patients he has dealt with.

We don’t know that Hakeem is actually giving real stats . He might have his own agenda.

Rosie51

Syracute I am happy for these women to break these laws something you have in common with Trump, he likes to pick and choose which laws are to be obeyed or not.

I have nothing in common with Trump who does not support democracy . Same could be said of this thread .

Lock, stock and barrel?

Let's hope so Elegran; it's creeps like him that are precisely the reason we need to keep men out of women's spaces. The less tackle he has, the better.

Just a thought - why is it called tackle?
Whatever it is.

Allira

Carlotta

He sounds like an utter creep Grannylynj, just think, he's been able to enter women's safe spaces.

Actually, Carlotta, I'm intrigued, npbeing rather ignorant of these descriptions.

What do you mean exactly by his tackle, Grannylynj?
Everything?

Lock, stock and barrel?

Wyllow3

We may be talking at cross purposes here? I googled reasons for gender dysphoria and it gave

"While the exact causes of gender dysphoria remain complex and not fully understood, research suggests that a combination of biological factors, including hormonal and genetic influences, play a role"

but the point of the law is not whether the above goes towards making someone trans, it doesnt alter the law as regards being born biologically male or female physically.

They "play a role" is not as definite as your "Simply though, hearing from doctors they believe in a biological reason for gender dysphoria" which is anecdotal. It seems that there is a lot of research still to be done on the complex factors (including psychological ones as well as those mentioned) that lead to gender dysphoria.

The vast majority of females would probably be found to support the ruling on the 16th.

I don’t have figures, but I think that would truly be a vast majority.

We don’t even have verifiable figures for those who are satisfied or unhappy with their transition. As Carlotta says, Dr Hakeem is only talking about patients he has dealt with.

Carlotta

He sounds like an utter creep Grannylynj, just think, he's been able to enter women's safe spaces.

Actually, Carlotta, I'm intrigued, npbeing rather ignorant of these descriptions.

What do you mean exactly by his tackle, Grannylynj?
Everything?

Syracute I am happy for these women to break these laws something you have in common with Trump, he likes to pick and choose which laws are to be obeyed or not.

He sounds like an utter creep Grannylynj, just think, he's been able to enter women's safe spaces.