Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

Yes, Syracute, I would like an explanation of a mindset that thinks it's unacceptable for a person presenting as female to be exposed to the danger certain penis intact persons present but its perfectly ok for women and girls to be exposed to that same danger by penis intact persons using the protection of the law, as was, to carry out their vile agendas.

Doodledog

So it’s males who are the danger? Can’t you see that this is exactly why many women want single-sex spaces?

QED indeed!

As Syracute itself says
Would you feel safe as a woman going into a male toilet ?

But from a TW or TW supporter’s viewpoint, women don’t need to fear men if they’re
pretending to be,
living like,
looking like,
feeling like,
dressing like,
what they think a woman does or is . . .
Which has been proven wrong, to the detriment of any TW who are not ill-intentioned, as well as to those who legally are women.

Do I REALLY need to explain this ??!!!
Would you feel safe as a woman going into a male toilet?

oh the irony! So a "woman" wouldn't be safe going into a male toilet or changing room because the menz in there are potentially violent, aggressive abusers? but maybe they're not because you never can tell just by appearances apparently Does it occur to you that that's exactly why women don't want men in our toilets and changing rooms either? Here's a thought.... instead of demanding that women budge up, make space and be kind to men presenting as women, how about you approach the male estate and tell them to stop being so unkind, threatening and aggressive to their own biological people and make them feel welcome? Why are you expecting women to do the grunt work for them? The problem isn't for women to resolve; we've fought for our space; time for men to buckle up and do the same.

Transwomen have been around for a long time and have been using the female toilets mostly with no problems.
TransAction and other groups have caused problems for women and transwomen by insisting that they are women and have a right to be in female safe spaces.
Transwomen who have never caused problems for women are now worried about the reactions after the court case

As I expected the TRAs will continue to behave like aggressive men and cause more trouble. They won't go quietly.

Doodledog

So it’s males who are the danger? Can’t you see that this is exactly why many women want single-sex spaces?

QED

Yeah as I say we are going to have to keep going with the legal action, because women saying no is rarely tolerated unless enforced via the law. A few organisations have already confirmed that they will comply with the law.

Doodledog

I think we all know the answer to that. It's because men can be dangerous, which is why women fought to have spaces of our own where they aren't allowed.

I genuinely do understand why transwomen may not want to use male loos, but something has to give. Either they (as males) need to be as forceful as some were about entering female spaces and front out being in male spaces as putative females, or they impose themselves on women.

Women have said no, and finally been listened to, so there is only the other route available. They tell men that whether they like it or not transwomen will share their spaces. Women were expected to deal with this, as the 'weaker; sex - why can't men deal with it now?

Well you won’t know that a trans woman is next to you in the women’s toilet anyways . They will continue to do so . Like it or not .

So it’s males who are the danger? Can’t you see that this is exactly why many women want single-sex spaces?

Nannee49

Syracute why would it be dangerous for a female presenting transgender person to be in a male toilet?

Do I REALLY need to explain this ??!!!
Would you feel safe as a woman going into a male toilet ?

I think we all know the answer to that. It's because men can be dangerous, which is why women fought to have spaces of our own where they aren't allowed.

I genuinely do understand why transwomen may not want to use male loos, but something has to give. Either they (as males) need to be as forceful as some were about entering female spaces and front out being in male spaces as putative females, or they impose themselves on women.

Women have said no, and finally been listened to, so there is only the other route available. They tell men that whether they like it or not transwomen will share their spaces. Women were expected to deal with this, as the 'weaker; sex - why can't men deal with it now?

Syracute why would it be dangerous for a female presenting transgender person to be in a male toilet?

Doodledog

Who knows, Rosie? It's much like 'feeling like a woman', I think. What do women feel like? Do we all feel the same? I doubt it, somehow.

Look like a woman
Feel like a woman
Act like a woman
Dress like a woman

Are all descriptions of or by men.

Women don’t need to do any of those things, because they are women.
(What a relief to use that word and know that people understand I must mean female without having to use AHF )

Who knows, Rosie? It's much like 'feeling like a woman', I think. What do women feel like? Do we all feel the same? I doubt it, somehow.

Doodledog as I can't remember the last time i wore a skirt or frock do you think that means I've 'male presented' to the point of no return? Am I now officially male and will have to learn how to use a urinal? Feeling a bit scared..........

What do you mean by 'female presenting'? If I go out in jeans and a checked shirt am I 'male presenting'? What if the hypothetical transperson is also wearing jeans and a check shirt? Is the Gents' more appropriate in that case?

Realistically, if someone goes to the Ladies, has a wee and comes out (after washing their hands and checking their hair) nobody is likely to care. Contrary to a lot of the hysteria from anti-feminists, most women are not transphobic. Nobody I know or have ever known is such. It is not Hayley from Coronation Street that troubles us. It is being powerless to stop a bearded bloke with a deep voice and bulging Adam's apple from forcing his way into our spaces and behaving in a threatening manner, claiming to be a woman. Along with mangling the language, skewing statistics, mutilating children and so on.

As has been said to the point of tedium, the TRAs who pushed things too far have done everyone a disservice. I have every sympathy for 'quiet' transwomen, but I'm afraid that this is for them to put right - they have piggybacked on feminists' fights until now, and it's time they fought their own battles instead of expecting women to do it for them. Again.

The important part is the Supreme Court has clarified that sex means biological sex and transwomen are male sex, so they need to butt out of women's single sex spaces and events.

You can be sure of anything you like, doesn't make you right. Equally I can be sure you don't care about the safety of women and girls and would happily sacrifice them on the altar of trans ideology any day. Just their tough luck I suppose. See two can play at that game, it achieves nothing.

Rosie51

Syracute do you have any sympathy with anyone who doesn't want to share intimate spaces with male bodied people, or are you such a captured handmaiden that any female need or desire should automatically be dismissed? I have a transgender person in my extended family, they agree females deserve privacy and respect away from males no matter how they 'identify'.

Nobody wants to infringe on anybody’s privacy . You won’t know they are there .
But really who IS going to police this ? What happens when a male presenting female shows up in the women’s toilet . How will that make anyone feel ? I am sure you don’t care about the safety of a female presenting transgender person being in a male toilet ?
Their tough luck , I suppose .

Wanting single sex spaces to be respected does not make anyone a transphobe. Are all transpeople and their allies women haters proudly displaying their misogyny? I thought not but it's ridiculous accusations like those of Syracute that drive people towards the more extreme factions.

Syracute do you have any sympathy with anyone who doesn't want to share intimate spaces with male bodied people, or are you such a captured handmaiden that any female need or desire should automatically be dismissed? I have a transgender person in my extended family, they agree females deserve privacy and respect away from males no matter how they 'identify'.

There would only be a point to that rather extreme measure if people continued to use spaces designed for the opposite sex despite the legislation clarifying that this is not acceptable within the law.

I am not a transphobe, and I have no interest in policing things - I am not trained to do so, I don't have time, and anyway, that's why I pay taxes. I do, however, wish to keep the protection of safe spaces for women. The law is clear, and I can't think of other areas where people question how something is going to be policed rather than whether a law is a good one or not.

WEAR not where hth

Carlotta

^there are trans people who do not wish any harm to women, have not encroached on their safe spaces and have not campaigned for anything.^

Regrettably their are many more trans activists who do wish harm to women, both verbally and physically and their are many cases you can find via the power of Google to corroborate that. Their are, even now, following the Supreme Court ruling, many trans activists who have clearly and publicly stated that they intend to ignore the law and will carry on invading places they have no rights to be in. We can only hope that they're made an example of when they're taken to court themselves. And as women won't back down or be quiet now, that could come sooner than you think.

Ugh ! These dangerous lurking trans people . So awful , so dangerous . So I hope all the gransnet transphobes here volunteer to police all these spaces where all this danger lurks .
You can make trans people where bands on their arms so that we know that a burly trans male is actually a woman and we can then feel safe that they are in their correct space .

Carlotta

^I'm not sure what Dr Upton's speciality^

A&E apparently Allira

Wonder how he ever ascertained the sex of an unconscious patient which can be important in the treatment administered? If they couldn't tell him did he toss a coin?

Carlotta

^I'm not sure what Dr Upton's speciality^

A&E apparently Allira

Thanks Carlotta
Which means area of expertise should include wide ranging knowledge of acute medical conditions and trauma so that they can make accurate diagnoses of men, women and children.