J K Rowling has nailed it - re Starmer and the trans issue

KS is an intelligent man so surely disagreement over these definitions for years shouldn't have made him unable to define what a woman is and IMO this debacle has nothing to do with disagreeing about definitions, and everything to do with those who've lied and those who have perpetuated the lie that anyone can change sex.

People who thought that a man could change sex and become a woman were either very poorly educated or were wrong.

If an issue has long been controversial, and then there is a formal ruling, that doesn't make people who had previously thought the other way 'wrong'.

At PMQs today I thought that KS should just have said that there had been disagreement over these definitions for years and he welcomed decision and clarity at last.

LizzieDrip

Fair enough Mollygo.

If you “know the answer” you don’t require any further input from me.

I didn’t expect you would provide any, so that’s OK.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

James O’Brien. 😂 an annoying twerp, full of himself.

Annoying twerp he is indeed. Dreadful man.

Have you managed to miss all those placards held by transactivists who may be trans or just allies, that say 'kill terfs' 'death to JK Rowling' 'choke on my girldick' and far far worse? Is that not hate proudly displayed?

Or "DECAPITATE ALL TERFS" or "A GOOD TERF IS A DEAD TERF" or, a rather more personal one "# J. K. ROWLING SHOULD BE DEAD"

As JKR said herself, if you substituted the words "JK ROWLING" and replaced it with "migrants, " you'd be facinf prison for 3 years.

I think most of us don't blame the majority of transwomen who want to live their lives peacefully and without trouble.

Absolutely. And I really hope that now that this ruling has been made, the sort of unfounded allegations of 'hatred' and Nazism etc that have been levied against some of us on here will stop, and the HQ will act if they don't.

I think most of us don't blame the majority of transwomen who want to live their lives peacefully and without trouble.
TransAction and other groups have made their lives and the lives of women difficult.
I agree that they are misogynistic men who seemed intent on causing distress to women by saying that they were women and could use women's safe places. They argued that they had changed sex and some believed them.

The TRAs are, indeed, misogynists, as are many so-called 'allies' who always foreground the rights of males over those of women, and yes, they have made things so much worse for those who were 'quietly' living as transwomen before.

It's all a mess, and I don't think we're out of it yet, as the practicalities still need to be sorted out.

But Wyllow some of them do say they’re trans. 🤷‍♀️
Vicious bullies.
Yes they give the (probably) a majority a bad name but when they dress and act as they do, women cannot differentiate and so become vulnerable surely?

Rosie51

kjmpde There may not be placards sating hate trans people

Have you managed to miss all those placards held by transactivists who may be trans or just allies, that say 'kill terfs' 'death to JK Rowling' 'choke on my girldick' and far far worse? Is that not hate proudly displayed?

These men have brought trouble down on genuine trans people who just want to live their lives. They are women haters not wanting to be women imo. And transwomen will suffer for it. And the hatred feeds into trans hate that existed already.

Bridie22

I feel vindictive to all who allowed this carnage of biological womens rights, its been a disgrace, forcing people to accept lie after lie.

That's fair enough, but not what you said when you blamed KS for something that happened under the Tories.

I'm not a Starmer apologist, but blaming him for this just doesn't stand up.

I think one of the 'positives' that has come out of this issue is that it has shone a light on men who portray themselves as 'good guys' but whose misogyny bubbles under the surface, James O, Brien, Alister Campbell, Owen Jones. But there also have been some very brave men, one who often gets missed is James Dreyfus, he has had such abuse and lost work because of his strong support for womens rights.

kjmpde There may not be placards sating hate trans people

Have you managed to miss all those placards held by transactivists who may be trans or just allies, that say 'kill terfs' 'death to JK Rowling' 'choke on my girldick' and far far worse? Is that not hate proudly displayed?

Fair enough Mollygo.

If you “know the answer” you don’t require any further input from me.

Carlotta 😀

As a source of reliable information take with a good pinch of Maldons.

I think the ruling has provoked such hatred. People don't change identity on a whim and if you are fortunate enough to be comfortable in the identity you were born in then do celebrate it. But don't do it at the expense of somebody who is not that lucky. What happens to people born with what used to be called a rosebud penis? There may not be placards sating hate trans people but the hatred can be seen in what happened to Brianna Ghey ( sorry if I've mis-spelt her name).

Mt61

FriedGreenTomatoes2

James O’Brien. 😂 an annoying twerp, full of himself.

Absolutely 100%

Yes definitely full of himself and obnoxious with it, hence his comment "how did you end up on the same side as Trump?" towards the women who support the ruling.

Aw thanks Wyllow; I only saw the headlines that popped up on my newsfeed; hence the summary version. I always smile when I hear any politician prefix a statement with Let me be clear; it almost always indicates that the very opposite is the case. Especially when they're in reverse gear!

^It has been amended since I cut and pasted it earlier today.
I changed nothing in the wording, I can assure you.^

Don't worry about it Allira; Wiki has had loads of entries "amended" today. Oddly enough, the main entries altered are for people connected to being gender critical! Now who and why would anyone do that I wonder?

No worries Allira

Exactly Rosie this needs to be reported for what it is, a clarification not a change or we're going to continue to have TRA's demonstrating that the law has been changed and they have 'lost their rights'; a right that they never had in the first place.

What reason would anyone have for feeling "vindictive" towards Conservatives who failed to attempt to change the law when the law hasn't been changed?

For all his faults and he had many, Boris Johnson was able to say what defines a woman. KS still appears to be unwilling or unable to do so because he wont admit to being wrong!!!

“It's the press as far as I can see that have made the stupid question on penis' the "key to it all". It’s much more about who can use which spaces, protection of safe spaces, protecting vulnerability whomever experiences it.” Wyllow

Ah yes the stupid question on penis. The stupidity of politicians believing that a small percentage of women have one - until last week!

So it’s all the fault of the press ( most of which didn’t believe it and said so) and we’re now to praise the Government for being so law abiding while the Law itself was being misinterpreted!

I’m glad I’m nowhere near as clever as they think they are!

I'd like to add my vote of thanks to JKR for her unwavering dedication to women's rights. Several other people who I believe deserve a mention are Sharon Davies, Julie Bindell, Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Gil House, Justine Roberts, Graham Lineham, Roz Adams...... so many people who lost their jobs, had their their income, careers, families, personal safety impacted by threats of harm and death by men who cannot tolerate being told NO.

Allira

Smileless2012

That is incorrect Allira. The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 allowed adults with gender dysphoria to change their legal gender (my emphasis); not their sex because ones sex cannot be changed.

That is why the act was called the Gender Recognition Act.

Apologies. I copied and pasted that from Wikipedia, Smileless which of course is not always factually correct. I wish now I'd added the link because, strangely, between then and now, it seems to have disappeared!

Smileless
It has been amended since I cut and pasted it earlier today.
I changed nothing in the wording, I can assure you.

Carlotta

PMQs this afternoon have been lively.

Does the prime minister now accept that when he said that it was the law that trans women were women, he was wrong?"referencing the Labour leader's previous comments.

Starmer didn't directly answer the question, but said he welcomes the Supreme Court's ruling.

Still hedging his bets.

On a subject as contested as this maybe best to look at the whole quote ?

Here's the PMQ in full

Badenoch said

"Does the prime minister now accept that when he said that it was the law that trans women were women, he was wrong"

Starmer replied

Let me be clear, I welcome the Supreme Court ruling on this issue. It brings clarity and it will give confidence to women and, of course, to service providers.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission will now issue updated guidance, and it is important that that happens and that all service providers then act accordingly.

This government’s approach, and my approach, has been as follows: to support and implement the supreme court ruling, and we will, to continue to protect single-sex spaces based on biological sex, and we will, but also to ensure that trans people are treated with respect, and we will, and to ensure that everybody is given dignity in their everyday lives

I do think this is the time now to lower the temperature, to move forward, and to conduct this debate with the care and compassion that it deserves. And I think that should unite the whole house.