And so it begins, Reform’s Britain

Galaxy

I think those arguments are based on how politics used to be, I think they have been changing for the last decade, I think left and right are becoming more and more redundant.

Politics is changing, there seems to be much less socialist sentiment, more right wing media pressure gradually changing opinions. Reform gets so much media more attention that it deserves, that is echoed in comments on social media, many much more extreme than mainstream sources. Sensible moderate views often get shouted down by strongly held but unreasonable opinions.

No one pays any attention to the media anymore, that ship sailed a long time ago.

What has not been mentioned is that, where voters could not bring themselves to vote for Reform, the Liberal Democrats have prevailed and are the main party in some Councils.

We're now a Reform county council. All our town's five representatives on it are Reform.
We didn't have a LibDem candidate on our ballot paper, don't know about the other wards.

I don't think giving specific information about voting patterns is in any way "down playing" Reforms results. It is putting that success into perspective rather than putting a spin on it to make it more news worthy. If only a third of the voters bother to vote, it's not possible to extrapolate what that result might be if 70% voted, equally in the past, it's not been very reliable to use local election results to predict future GEs. That's not to down play Reform's results again I am just putting it into a context.

V3ra

^What has not been mentioned is that, where voters could not bring themselves to vote for Reform, the Liberal Democrats have prevailed and are the main party in some Councils.^

We're now a Reform county council. All our town's five representatives on it are Reform.
We didn't have a LibDem candidate on our ballot paper, don't know about the other wards.

The Lib Dem’s have played it completely differently to Reform. They have identified specific areas, and been out on the ground canvassing, gaining seats and winning in their target areas Their plan is more sustainable I think, because without making loads of noise about it, they prioritise local issues and generally make good councillors because of that. I don’t think they won because in some areas people couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Reform either, I think the seats they won had electorates who were more one nation Tories, not right wing Tories.

I agree with that David. Much of the press has squeezed out moderate reporting by constant attacks on Starmer on the one hand and reports on Reform on the other.

I think there is real concern given what is happening with Trump that Farage is just importing ideas so we talk about them.

Most of the public are probably aware of USA DEI initiatives and immigration but not of the wholesale attacks on the judiciary, social care, medical care, and end of Due Process nor the banning of material in libraries, schools, universities of a whole raft of histories that dont fit in with the current administrations re-write of history.

Having just won a few seats of local power Farage is already on high horse declaring (the Times) that Reform have declared they will begin a campaign to “re-moralise” young people: clamp down on “woke” in universities, have a “patriotic” curriculum, and erect statures of the Great British figures around the country as well as ending working from home and cutting all diversity initiatives.

Grandstanding when the real concerns are how councils can best deliver services in difficult times without cutting its vital social care and other functions.

Oreo

Reform do only hold 4.5% council seats in England and control 10 councils out of 317 but imagine what may have happened if all councils in England had been holding elections last Thursday.They weren’t but if they had done those %figures could have been sky high.

Unlikely. You can't use what happened on Thursday as a strong yardstick as most of those 23 councils are not places where Labour held any significant control.

Cambridgeshire & Peterborough is the only mayoralty where Labour lost to Conservative. I suspect that had much to do with the former Labour mayor Dr Nik Johnson standing down. He is a working paediatrician and had announced that he would not be seeking re-election saying it was "a step too far" because of the heavy toll the role had taken on him. The winner Paul Bristow was MP for Peterborough between 2019 and 2024 so he was a known quantity.

Labour won three of the six contested mayoralties.

Doncaster is the only council that was under Labour control and lost to Reform but chose very sensibly to retain Ros Jones as mayor instead of chosing Reform's male model/currency trader Alexander Jones.

Just been watching & listening to Sir Richard Dearloveon GBNEWS. He’s the former chief of M16. He’s 80 now which surprised me to be honest. Such a sensible chap. Alert to all possibilities o regarding potential harms to the UK - Chinese threat ‘this goverment needs to take this situation more seriously’. Trump - ‘after 100 days let’s see how things actually pan out in another 200 days. He says a lot but some of what he says isn’t how things end up. Look at Ukraine, he’s not given up on them, he’s sending (some type of bomber, I can’t remember its name, sorry) to be used as much needed spare parts. And Farage? Do I think he’d make a good PM? Yes, of course he will.”

Such endorsement, no?

vintage1950

I worked from home for many years, as a freelance, sometimes till the early hours, at weekends and on Bank Holidays. It was a routine which fitted in well with looking after my children. So I had no childcare or travel or workwear expenses and didn't waste valuable time commuting. The clients didn't mind my working from home as long as I could be contacted within office hours, did the job properly and on time. What's wrong with that?

Obviously there is no problem with that. However, you were self-employed and the Right does not want to give employees freedoms. The right will try to convince workers (employees) the a) America is the land if the free and b) we should have those freedoms.

However, we gave our own freedoms and that would mean giving them up. America has freedoms "to" while Europe and the UK have freedoms "from". This is obviously a generalisation but freedoms "to" are only if you can afford them and entail limiting freedoms "from". Freedoms "from" can limit the opportunities of those who can afford to exercise their freedom to increase their wealth at the cost of those who can't.

Freedoms "to" are often characterised by an emphasis on individual acts without government interference, and freedoms "from" negative conditions, come through government action.

The balance between them is a key aspect of politics, with one extreme emphasising almost exclusively freedoms "to", the other extreme emphasising freedoms "from" and a large (but ever-changing) group wanting a blend of both those the country does embrace and a blend of those it doesn't.

Sorry, no edit button!

I saw that, FGT and I was surprised.
I do not believe Farage can lead a Party successfully as he has never managed to work satisfactorily with anyone else. He follows Trump in peremptorily sacking anyone who disagrees with him.

At the moment he is spot on with issues concerning a large part of the population, and the social media tactics he uses endorse this. I wonder at the quality of the new councillors elected, who if previous campaigning form has been followed, make rare appearances in public and generally withdraw from the hustings.
We shall see.
Someone said, he has the nose for a good story and leads the news not follows it. He is a classic demagogue. Not necessarily good qualities for a politician. He is an innovator, but has never had the opportunity to implement any of his policy suggestions, and if they were that easy to do other parties in power would have done so.

eazybee

I saw that, FGT and I was surprised.
I do not believe Farage can lead a Party successfully as he has never managed to work satisfactorily with anyone else. He follows Trump in peremptorily sacking anyone who disagrees with him.

At the moment he is spot on with issues concerning a large part of the population, and the social media tactics he uses endorse this. I wonder at the quality of the new councillors elected, who if previous campaigning form has been followed, make rare appearances in public and generally withdraw from the hustings.
We shall see.
Someone said, he has the nose for a good story and leads the news not follows it. He is a classic demagogue. Not necessarily good qualities for a politician. He is an innovator, but has never had the opportunity to implement any of his policy suggestions, and if they were that easy to do other parties in power would have done so.

Is he an “innovator” or is he basing much of his “wants” on Trump and simply telling his supporters what they want to hear?

I haven’t actually seen or heard one sensibly costed “policy” as yet from Reform, and as for the below:-

“ Having just won a few seats of local power Farage is already on high horse declaring (the Times) that Reform have declared they will begin a campaign to “re-moralise” young people: clamp down on “woke” in universities, have a “patriotic” curriculum, and erect statures of the Great British figures around the country as well as ending working from home and cutting all diversity initiatives.

Grandstanding when the real concerns are how councils can best deliver services in difficult times without cutting its vital social care and other functions.”

What this says to me is a backward and retrograde step, and there’s no explanation of what is actually means!

Galaxy

No one pays any attention to the media anymore, that ship sailed a long time ago.

I certainly don’t, are you saying nobody takes any notice if newspapers these days, I thought people bought newspapers to read them!.

Just seen than Lincolnshire County Council doesn't actually have any diversity officers.

People particularly the younger generation don't buy newspapers anymore in the way they used to, it is why some are struggling. Social media holds the power now.

David49

Galaxy

No one pays any attention to the media anymore, that ship sailed a long time ago.

I certainly don’t, are you saying nobody takes any notice if newspapers these days, I thought people bought newspapers to read them!.

It was not worded well, because the number of views on mainstream and social media sites show that they do. People don’t get their views from nowhere, what has changed is that there are many more options to seek sites that reinforce whatever your views are.

People can still see MSM online which is very valuable, it's a real shame that so many paywalls have gone up.

People just pick up the headlines and so much temptation to just quote from them as its made those MSM them more "Red Top"

But there is ITVX online, Channel 4 news online, Sky, Yahoo, I player, Guardian, etc.

Sky and Yahoo pick up news from Telegraph and Times a day after. It's there to find.

A concerning trend is when people get other news from chat LBC or similar as they are not news programmes but opinion programmes.

No that's not what is happening, people, the 'ordinary' people, now have a place where they can express their views relatively freely - social media. I actually think it has been one of the best things to happen in terms of hearing a range of views. Yes of course people can fall into echo chambers but it allows people to be heard in a different way. Twitter for example tends to be discussing issues way before the guardian or the mail get to them.

Galaxy social media is media?

Ilovecheese

Just seen than Lincolnshire County Council doesn't actually have any diversity officers.

And yet Andrea Jenkyns is planning to get rid of them. She is also saying she wants like to cut 10% of council staff.

It would appear that Reform has been flooding councils with FOI requests for staff numbers and breakdown of roles.

The majority of people employed by Lincolnshire Council are employed in adult social care, children's services and the fire service.

Is this really what the people of Lincolshire voted for?

Sorry that wasn't in response to you Wylllow, posted as I posted!

David says:

Politics is changing, there seems to be much less socialist sentiment,

I would disagree.

It may not be expressed as a desire for 'socialism', but in general people want a government to look after them by making their lives better. They want decent wages, good access to services, particularly the NHS. they don't want swingeing increases to charges for utilities such as energy and water when they can see the privatised companies prioritising dividends over investment in improving infrastructure and preventing the discharge of sewage into out waterways and onto our beaches. They don't want to see punitive changes to disability benefits and attempts to force welfare recipients into work when there are few job opportunities available in their areas. I don't think they want to see their children and grandchildren struggling to buy their own homes, especially when new developments of unaffordable houses are springing up around them.

Above all, they want to know why the 'burden' of increased taxation always seems to fall on them while the wealthy and super wealthy get off very lightly.

If these 'wants' (and this isn't an exhaustive list) can't be viewed as tending to 'socialist' then I don't know what they are.

The problem that I see is that the term 'socialist' is fatally tainted by association with communism and and is feared as much by the people who desperately need to be treated with as much care and consideration by governments as are the more successful high achievers and the wealthy. Yet these wants and needs are not unreasonable, are they?

Populists do recognise this and get a great deal of mileage out of railing against 'elites' and offering to improve the lives of the sections of the population who feel ignored and uncared for. This is how revolutions are nurtured...

I found this BBC news report, in which Labour MPs reported what their constituents are saying to them, very illuminating. The Labour leadership has to wake up and listen to the 'ordinary ' people who voted for them and start questioning whether more of the same that has been on offer for the past 14 years, austerity, penny pinching and courting the wealthy , is really the way to go.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8jdr900r7o

Allira

MaizieD

I do know that, just didn't mention it. I realised I should have done, but I'd already pressed 'send'...

The point of my post was that there is no such thing as 'road tax'.

I think people still think of it as road tax even though it's vehicle licensing.

Yes. The patronising tone regarding semantics is really off putting, is it even necessary? Vehicle tax must be a huge revenue for the government.

Ilovecheese

Just seen than Lincolnshire County Council doesn't actually have any diversity officers.

They do.
They’ve just got different titles. ‘Coaches’ is one.
There are others.

Maizie I think part of the problem is that there has been so much emphasis on identity politics. The Conservatives and Reform don't care about improving public services or supporting the poor, so they've appealed to social conservatives (with a small 'c'), of whom there are many.