Solid Trump rejection. So what happened in the U.K.?

petra

^But how would anyone explain why people are willing to vote for a Trump supporting party rather than an alternative^
They give hope where the others don’t.
It might be false hope but that’s all they have.

I don’t disagree, but there is something seriously wrong if you’re right on that point. Over half of the richest nation in the world think there is no hope for them.

It's the easy option to blame Trump and those who voted for him for everything going wrong in the world.
A vast majority of UK voters have been sick to the back teeth for a very long time with the waffle that surrounds illegal migration and the inability to do anything about it. Leave was voted for mainly to stop migration with Boris promising to get our borders back. It didn't happen. Numerous Home Secretaries have assured us that they will stop the flow but nothing happens. Labour won with illegal migration being a big issue and still nothing. To quote Pte. Fraser, we are doomed.
Australia doesn't appear to have an illegal migration problem. Not sure that Canada does either so maybe their main issues are Trump related.

But how would anyone explain why people are willing to vote for a Trump supporting party rather than an alternative
They give hope where the others don’t.
It might be false hope but that’s all they have.

Galaxy

I think Blue Labour are making some progress Terribull, they give me some vague hope.

Late to this, but, isn't McSweeny a leading light of 'Blue Labour'?

From their 'What is to be done' piece this April:

We should drastically reduce immigration, reducing low-skill immigration by significantly raising salary thresholds; closing the corrupt student visa mill system; and ending the exploitation of the asylum system, if necessary prioritising domestic democratic politics over the rule of international lawyers.

We should legislate to root out DEI in hiring practices, sentencing decisions, and wherever else we find it in our public bodies.

I don't like this.

I'm not too sure about this' either:

The government does not run this country. We have handed over too much control to unaccountable QUANGOs and increasingly powerful courts with the power to block government policy. We should return decision-making to parliament, limiting the endlessly expanding power of judicial review and reforming or closing QUANGOs which make decisions which properly belong to the realm of democratic politics.

The British state is bigger but less effective than ever. The prime minister is right that the civil service is sclerotic and needs reform, but we also need to end the scam of consultants ripping off the government and wasting huge sums of public money. We should restore state capacity by reforming our civil service and ending the corporate commissioning and consultancy racket.

Too much like Reform for my liking...

I'd like to see their ideas on how the national economy should be run. Because unless we abandon the acceptance of neoliberal economic theory, which is embedded in the Treasury, the Bank of England and the financial industry and accepted by most of the population, I can't see any proposal, however radical, being effective.

Oreo

It ain’t necessarily so Wyllow3
I think it’s more that they’ve tried other political parties and seen things get worse rather than better so are willing at least at a local level to give them a go.

Surely, thats what they see, totally understand, but it is the case that change takes time, resources, and is greatly complex as I described, and a Party that offers "jam today" if you aren't aware of all the forces at work is bound to be popular.

Allira

But - was it Dutton himself or was it a whispering campaign started by Labor?

I don't know enough about Dutton to comment.

Are we allowed to comment? I've noticed our Australian Gransnetter has been chastised a few times if she posts an opinion on UK politics (even though she is British too 😁).

Probably a combination of factors, as it always is. It was pretty resounding though, Dutton lost his seat so there must have been some personal antipathy towards him?
I copied the ABC report so you could see I wasn't talking without having checked what was being said in Australia too, as well as talking to my own sister there, so I think it’s reasonably reliable rather than just my opinion.

terribull your post of 11.48.10, flipping marvellous, spot on 👍

Terribull 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You really should be a political columnist, you’re wasted on GN

Galaxy

To be fair this is why I never start threads WW, I can't decide whether it is cowardice or laziness which is the main driver in my case.

Just toying with the idea of starting a thread on the latest Israeli initiative/atrocity - completely taking over Gaza.

Waiting for some else though.

It ain’t necessarily so Wyllow3
I think it’s more that they’ve tried other political parties and seen things get worse rather than better so are willing at least at a local level to give them a go.

"What is wrong with the voter in the UK? Are they daft as the MAGA lot?"

It's much more nuanced that, I don't think it's necessarily about making us "great" again longing for an Empire and being a huge presence on a world stage. Personally I wish we weren't in that respect, why do we, a relatively small country, feel we have to be at the fore of the green initiatives for example, when China, India and the US aren't doing and have no intention if that should disadvantage their economies of what they should in that respect, oh it's all been said before, it's like farting against thunder, the minimal difference we will make and some of it doesn't make any sense when we shut down our own oil production and import it from Norway and bloody Drax who harm the environment but receive billions of pounds in subsidies from energy bill payers.

I don't think it's about making Britain great again, so much as making Britain "fair" again. I found myself watching the Channel 4 "Groomed" programme last night, I almost wished I hadn't, the sheer horror of what has been happening to girls (children) on an industrial scale, the cover ups, the ineptitude of politicians, police, the obfuscation of the mealy mouthed we must put social cohesion before the interests of some feckless girls, its their lifestyle choice, the lack of transparency, because they put the sensibilities of a community over the safety of children is enough to make any one shout "please, please act in the interest of the abused, they're children and not the abusers, grown men". Right at the end, the apologists, sometimes relatives of the men who had been jailed had started a Tic Toc group which one the rapists had been able to access from prison, against the law, the abused had been named, also against the law, vilified, called all manner of derogatory names, and when the Tic Toc group were tackled about it, there was a "oh sorry, didn't know we were doing anything wrong" but prosecuted? Who is doing anything about this, if not, why not??? Umpteen people were locked up in the aftermath of Southport, some rightly so, particularly those advocating setting migrant hotels on fire, but some received disproportionately long sentences in comparison to what might be considered far worse crimes.

To be fair this is why I never start threads WW, I can't decide whether it is cowardice or laziness which is the main driver in my case.

Whitewavemark2

Galaxy

What you think their best interests are and what they think their best interests are will be very different. Why on earth would they think their best interests lie in either of the main parties.

I don’t think that their best interest necessarily lie in either of the two main party’s and I assume many people think the same, but it is a massive leap to reject what they are offering atm and instead vote for a right wing populist party with everything that it brings with it.

What is Farage bringing to the table that the others aren’t?

Farage offers something no party that actually holds power or is close to it can realistically offer - rapid answers to a whole series of complex and troubled issues.

The Labour Party (or if the Conservatives were in power) can and couldn't offer instant "jam today". Labour plans are long term ones and it has always made that clear.

However, if you don't know what they are - myriad pieces of a jigsaw, and now subject to huge forces like Trump and tariffs, of the Ukraine and defence spending, world trade relationships - its not a question of stupidity at all but of lack of knowledge.

Make it gin and tonic and I’m game!

Have a nice day.

I’ll send a big dog with a brandy keg to your mountain Whitewavemark2 you may as well go out in style😃

Oh well.

Being in the minority of one certainly isn’t comfortable, and I suspect that my posts have not explained very well where I’m coming from.

But what I do know is that you are all wrong in your assumptions😊. I shall die on this mountain😄.

I won’t waste any more of your time.

That hole you’re digging is getting pretty deep now Whitewavemark2 😂
Being as daft as the MAGA lot is no less an insult and shows you don’t understand other voters.

Oreo

Smileless2012

Precisely Galaxy.

We live in a democratic country. People are entitled to vote for whoever they wish. I wouldn't vote for Reform but wouldn't presume there is anything wrong with those who did.

Of course there isn’t anything wrong with them, but there’s something wrong with thinking that any group of voters are daft or stupid or any other insult, cos they don’t happen to think like you.

It's arrogance.

It is why the the main parties are so unpopular.

Oreo

LauraNorderr

Great post Terribull, well thought out, well put, as always.

I thought so too😃

Yes, well said, Terribull

You think about and express what others may be thinking, their concerns and in some cases desperation and why they voted as they did, rather than dismissing them and labelling them as daft.

Smileless2012

Precisely Galaxy.

We live in a democratic country. People are entitled to vote for whoever they wish. I wouldn't vote for Reform but wouldn't presume there is anything wrong with those who did.

Of course there isn’t anything wrong with them, but there’s something wrong with thinking that any group of voters are daft or stupid or any other insult, cos they don’t happen to think like you.

Allira

Whitewavemark2

Allira

Wyllow3

LauraNorderr

Of course it is the fault of the stupid, uneducated idiots.
They just don’t understand do they.
So busy concerning themselves with rising crime rates, falling educational standards, lack of housing, lack of job opportunities, failing NHS and poor social care.
What do they know? Idiots.

No one has said anything like this on here.

Straw man argument.

That is precisely the premise of the OP, Wyllow3!!
Or didn't you read that?

It certainly isn’t!

The premise was

Two huge western powers rejected Trump leaning political parties.

We didn’t - why?

Does it mean that the voter is willing to be led by the nose as we see in the MAGA crowd?

What on earth is wrong with the voter in the. U.K.?

Are they as daft as the MAGA lot?

🤔

Why don’t people read what is written!!

Honestly.

My question was ‘is the U.K. voter as daft as MAGA”

It is not saying that they are! It merely poses the question in order to get to the reason as to why the U.K. voter appears to be going against the flow - re other large western powers.

LauraNorderr

Great post Terribull, well thought out, well put, as always.

I thought so too😃

Precisely Galaxy.

We live in a democratic country. People are entitled to vote for whoever they wish. I wouldn't vote for Reform but wouldn't presume there is anything wrong with those who did.

Galaxy

The green party .
They aren't voting against Labour, they are voting against them all. The green party has very little to say of relevance to voters in the deprived areas of County Durham.

The Greens are a bad joke.

But - was it Dutton himself or was it a whispering campaign started by Labor?

I don't know enough about Dutton to comment.

Are we allowed to comment? I've noticed our Australian Gransnetter has been chastised a few times if she posts an opinion on UK politics (even though she is British too 😁).