Israel to "conquer" Gaza

Maybe it's a mixture, Annie.

I haven’t said he is innocent or guilty, I do not believe he is at
war to avoid a court case,

Anniebach

Yes I am sure you do MayBee

If he’s so squeaky clean why isn’t he allowed into the UK?

Her's a very interesting article written in the Jewish Independent, which is a publication for and from a part of the Jewish community in Australia. I've posted it as it describes the different reactions to what is happening in Israel so well and asks the questions about the morality of what is happening in Israel and how they feel about Gaza.

The question is not whether we support Israel, but which Israel

"I speak to my Israeli family and friends. They are exhausted. After 18 months of missiles, displacement, grief and hostage anguish, Netanyahu is exploiting their fatigue to entrench authoritarian rule.

They’re pleading with us to speak up.
And some Jews around the world are. Major U.S. Jewish groups have condemned calls to reoccupy Gaza. In the UK, 36 members of the Board of Deputies decried the government’s rejection of a ceasefire deal, writing: “Israel’s soul is being ripped out.”

Mainstream Zionist leaders and Orthodox rabbis (such as R. Yosef Blau, longtime spiritual adviser of Yeshiva University) are breaking ranks — not in opposition to Israel, but out of love and despair for what it’s becoming.

Ami Ayalon, former Shin Bet chief, put it bluntly: “The very fabric of the state of Israel and the values on which it was founded are being eroded…

We need our friends abroad, Jewish communities around the world, to express support for the Israeli people — not for an extremist government.”

Diaspora Jews have a responsibility to speak up against internal as well as external threats to Israel."

thejewishindependent.com.au/the-question-is-not-whether-we-support-israel-but-which-israel

I think most people believe Israel should have a homeland, absolutely, but what a certain group, mainly settlers have been doing is taking from palistinians by threat and by violence that what does not belong to them, but to others,
I watched Basel Ardra’s documentary which won best foreign film in the American awards recently documenting the day to day experiences of people in the West Bank. It is a hard watch but well worth watching, especially for those naysayers who just see palistinians as all terrirists.
Two days after he returned from America he was badly beaten up by the Israeli military. I hope he can keep safe but the footage he took was damning.
I feel for those decent Israelis, like the Israeli friend who shared the award with Basel and so many others that the horror being done is being done in their name.

I don’t believe Netanyahu wants the hostages returned until he’s destroyed Gaza and killed more innocent people. Of course, his forces claim they’re targeting Hamas and I expect they are but they’re killing thousands of Palestinian people and their children.
The current Israeli government supports illegal settlements, no action taken against murderous settlers.

I believe Jewish people have the right to a homeland. I support the existence of Israel. I’m not Jewish but north Manchester my homeland, has the largest Jewish community in the UK, outside London. We also have large Muslim populations, many of Pakistani origin (cotton mills). I have friends in both communities. I especially remember a role model when I qualified and started sw aged 30. She was in her fifties and arrived here in 1938 on kindertransport. She was the only survivor from her family in Vienna. Last year I recognised her name/image in an exhibition of photographs at imperial war museum north. The exhibition showed Holocaust survivors, many now in their 90’s and their families. My friends huge extended family included lawyers, doctors, surgeons, teachers and more. I’m certain she’s heart broken about what’s happening.

I recognise Hamas seeks publicity, will exploit heart breaking images, appears to care little about its population. That doesn’t justify Netanyahu’s devastation of Gaza. (Oreo - much respect on our difference here)

Yes I am sure you do MayBee

Anniebach

I do not believe Netanyahu is at war to avoid a trial in a court of law , if there is to be a trial it will happen, would an opposition party ignore it come an election in 2026 or possibly
sooner

I believe it.

I do not believe Netanyahu is at war to avoid a trial in a court of law , if there is to be a trial it will happen, would an opposition party ignore it come an election in 2026 or possibly
sooner

He clearly isn’t bothered about the hostages. Their families must be beside themselves.

Does anyone really believe that Netanyahu wants the hostages returned before he's finished destroying Gaza? I'm afraid that I don't. I've no sympathy for Hamas, the events of 7/10 were appalling but if you want peace you have to accept that there has to be negotiation that gives everyone something they want. Hamas clearly thought the Israeli govt would want the return of their hostages but Netanyahu are prepared to sacrifice hostages for land. That's the real crux of what is happening in Gaza and it is settler led, not led by secular Israelis.

A recent UN-backed report said Gaza's whole population – some 2.1 million people – is at critical risk of famine.

The Israeli government has insisted there is no shortage of food in Gaza and that the "real crisis is Hamas looting and selling aid

And people are always pointing out Hamas' propoganda - Israelis are just as bad.

I have read it Wyllow. Thankyou, but is difficult reading, it’s upsetting and makes me angry and I am not an angry person. Not usually.

If Israel had not renaiged on the agreement they agreed and signed, the Israeli hostages Would have been released 6 weeks ago, at the start of March. This could have been over.

So to my mind this brutality is being continued because Netanyahu wants it to continue in order to keep his ultra right government in power which allows him to avoid being tried in court for many serious offences, without even considering the the real potential for genocide charges.

.

Todays news:

Well, the deadline has been reached as per the O/P - remember it was today that Netanyahu gave a deadline for all hostages to be returned or he would launch the major military offensive?

Of course, when that deadline was given it was expected that there would have been US involvement in some kind of brokerage as regards Hostages/ cease fire agreement

While there has been no sign of a breakthrough with negotiating teams still in Doha, local media say that Arab mediators have been pushing for more time to give talks a chance

Meanwhile last night attacks mark the largest ground assault on north Gaza since Israel resumed its offensive in March

Read what is actually happening to people - death rate was the highest since March -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crr704wwklgo

Will there be medical facilities and help if the 4 aid points happen? Since they have only just started being constructed, will the current Israel regime allow aid in the interim?

Or should I say, why can they not?

Allsorts

How can you refuse to acknowledge Israel is doing anything wrong, the fact there was the Holocaust over 80 years ago you would think they wouldn't want to destroy a whole race themselves. Soon they will be found guilty of genocide, will you believe it then? They will not let any journalists including bbc in. 50, 000 people killed in Gaza in last eight months, many more including mostly children maimed for life, 1 in 6 will die of starvation in next few weeks. 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust and 5 million others. I don't want to see anything about it again because it has changed nothing. This is playing out for the world to see. I know what I think of them. I don't consider them allies.

I agree. I’m scared to say what I really think these days for fear of being banned from gransnet as others have been.

Anniebach

I am sure Israelis think of their families who lost everything
in the Holocaust, how could they wipe those film reels from their mind

I don't know, Annie my next door neighbour before I moved here, was on the last Kinder transport, every single member of her family died. She married, worked as an NHS nurse, raised two lovely girls and for the 15 years that I lived next to her and her family she seemed a happy, well balanced woman. I think our instincts to survive are very strong, however, she was given a future by Nicholas Winton and the family that adopted her, she had a future, was able to follow her faith, married a lovely kind man who was successful in his career, perhaps she had no appetite for bitterness and anger. I don't know if she is still alive but I'm almost 100% positive that she, her husband and her children would absolutely condemn what is happening to Palestinians in Gaza. I think she would want to give Palestinian children the same opportunity that she was given to survive and prosper.

Population of the Isle of Wight is 142,396.

How can you refuse to acknowledge Israel is doing anything wrong, the fact there was the Holocaust over 80 years ago you would think they wouldn't want to destroy a whole race themselves. Soon they will be found guilty of genocide, will you believe it then? They will not let any journalists including bbc in. 50, 000 people killed in Gaza in last eight months, many more including mostly children maimed for life, 1 in 6 will die of starvation in next few weeks. 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust and 5 million others. I don't want to see anything about it again because it has changed nothing. This is playing out for the world to see. I know what I think of them. I don't consider them allies.

Gaza is smaller than the Isle of Wight but with 2.3 million population squeezed tightly in that small space,
Just wondering the population of the IoW. Will check.

I am sure Israelis think of their families who lost everything
in the Holocaust, how could they wipe those film reels from their mind

David49

“You can kill people but you cant kill ideas,”

The allies did a pretty good job eliminating Nazi ideology and there was a significant number of sympathizers in the UK in 1940, as there are Gaza sympathizers in Israel.

We are in uncharted times I can’t ever remember a terrorist group holding an entire population hostage and using them as human shields.

You can't compare Nazi ideology with sympathy for Gaza.

I was just going to make a similar point silverlining48 Gaza is 365sq km with a population density of 15,603 per square mile, difficult for Hamas not to be in close contact with the civilian population even if they are in deep tunnels and as already said, the Gazans have absolutely no escape. I am in no way making an excuse for Hamas by the way, just stating the situation in Gaza for people who want to avoid contact with Hamas, basically it's pretty difficult!

Your last para David. Most people caught up in a war can escape to another country, as my mother as a very young girl did. She lost family, home and possessions, it was hard, her pain lasted all her life but she was free and safe.
In Gaza there is no escape. The people are trapped behind high walls and barbed wire, defended by Israel. No escape. They didn’t call it the biggest open air prison for nothing, and that was before this war began.
So that’s how Hamas can hold an entire population hostage. They can’t get out.
As I sit here in I think of the millions starving in fear of theirs and their children’s lives, I think of my mum who lost her home, and know how lucky I am.

But they didn't David, over 9,000 Nazi criminals escaped to Argentina, Brazil and Chile, often helped by members of the Catholic Church. There are still Nazis in practically every European country including the UK. The WW2 stopped the German Nazi movement but it certainly didn't kill the idea of Nazism which is really just another horrible form of Fascism that fosters racism and dislike of foreigners. tbh I think it's alive and well and living under a stone near us all!