Sir Keir Starmer’s speech this morning (12/05/25)

I was with three women I’ve known and got on with at the regular event we meet at. A discussion arose about the lack of visible reverence to VE Day in our town centre. In outlying villages like mine, bunting, flags etc everywhere. Also community singing of wartime favourites outside cafes and wine bars .
The consensus amongst the group was the council is dominated by Muslims whose don’t share our priorities. They went onto be worried about ‘our history’ not being taught well. I agreed abiut history but kept out of their heart felt concerns that our town is no longer the place of pride it was . in some areas, white British people are vanishingly rare. They also felt their freedom to talk about these worries has been shut down. I like these kind, friendly women. It isn’t the first time I’ve heard similar worries.

I may be wrong but I suspect this is the kind of thing Galaxy is raising.

In using VE Day as an example, aren't we forgetting something really pertinent?

"Many Muslims fought in World War II, with an estimated 5.5 million participating on the Allied side. The British Indian Army, which included a significant number of Muslims, was a major contributor to the Allied war effort, particularly in the Far East Campaign and North Africa. Muslims also served in other Allied forces, including the French Army, Red Army, and Arab Legion.

Our own histories of WW2 have wiped out recognition of these soldiers

So its not surprising people don't realise or have forgotten and identify WW2 without them, and to turn and criticise Muslims as "not us" in WW2.......?

In fact Mosques have been marking VE Day

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsRuCKXJiA8

and found more similar examples, but we don't get to hear of them?

Wyllow I’m well aware of the history. My point remains.

Iam64 I live in a town with very few Muslims, but there were few signs of VE Day commemorations. I'm not sure why, but it wasn't because the town is dominated by Muslim thinking and lifestyle. I didn't notice flags or anything in the surrounding villages either.

I wonder how much people who think "our history" isn't taught well know about what is actually taught in British schools. I occasionally taught history and both my children took history A level. My experience is that there is a great emphasis on "Englishness" in the history curriculum. I think I might have grounds for complaint if I were Scottish, Welsh or Irish, never mind with descendants who aren't British.

Wyllow3

In using VE Day as an example, aren't we forgetting something really pertinent?

"Many Muslims fought in World War II, with an estimated 5.5 million participating on the Allied side. The British Indian Army, which included a significant number of Muslims, was a major contributor to the Allied war effort, particularly in the Far East Campaign and North Africa. Muslims also served in other Allied forces, including the French Army, Red Army, and Arab Legion.

Our own histories of WW2 have wiped out recognition of these soldiers

So its not surprising people don't realise or have forgotten and identify WW2 without them, and to turn and criticise Muslims as "not us" in WW2.......?

Not forgotten in Brighton. This is the Chattri, on the downs.

Well not actually Muslim, I know that, but you get my drift.

Grantanow

I think this will cause care home reruitment problems. UK unemployed don't want the jobs. The obvious outcome is the care home companies will raise wages to increase recruitment and preserve their profit margins by raising care home fees. This will put pressure on pensioners to pay more and ultimately on local authorities picking up the fees of those who run out of money.

It will definitely cause problems, we already have a significant shortage of carers. So, as you say, we can't fill the jobs now, and it's only going to get worse.

Iam64

Wyllow I’m well aware of the history. My point remains.

Yes, of course I do take your point about how things are. Not trying to dodge it, rather to ask did it have to be like this.

But I too managed to get through A level History with no idea whatsoever about the 5.5 million taking part in WW2. In school the pink areas of the map were the Ex Empire and if I'm honest the teaching was of "How We built their Roads and Railways" the word "native" used and I can't help but wonder how long those ideas persisted.
I recall talking to a very elderly friend who to my surprise (given I thought I knew well) launched on a complaint on her sons behalf.

He lives in an area of town that is not generally lived in by any one not white. One not white person has bought a house in the road, probably a professional. "They're going to put the house prices down in the road" she said. So people understandably choose to live where they don't face this sort of thing.

I don't know the answer to this. We all try to live somewhere comfortable to us, and yes I do live in a big multi cultural city with areas where people have grouped together although perhaps, unusually, more spread out than some smaller places.

Galaxy i watched a film about this, the old oak?

Anyway my only input was to say in my multi cultural town they did VE day and everyone puts flags up and does whatever they want. I haven't really seen it causes problems

IMO, we just need to move past this whole thing!

Bad dishonest violent people come in all shapes and sizes, all colours, all creeds, all nationalities, anll genders and all religions.

Singling out any particular race or region is discrimination, possibly born from fear or ignorance or both.

I would happily have a non-white neighbour, or a Jewish family or a Moslem family - in fact, I would welcome ANYONE to my neighbourhood , with the exception of violent, aggressive criminals, rapists, paedophiles and terrorists.

I get so fed up with bigots, racists, those who discriminate against any cohort of people just because they’re different.

Live and let live.

JaneJudge

Galaxy i watched a film about this, the old oak?

Anyway my only input was to say in my multi cultural town they did VE day and everyone puts flags up and does whatever they want. I haven't really seen it causes problems

Same in my multi cultural northern town JaneJudge.

There was lots going on for VE Day, flags flying etc. A diverse range of people in the town centre commemorating the end of WW2.

I think the film you refer to is the Ken Loach film ‘The Old Oak’. A brilliant, moving watch!

I’m down South but north of that London

But what is happening on VE day doesn't really change the fact that the electorate is consistently voting against high levels of immigration. My view is we are now at the stage of a fairly simple choice, either Labour significantly reduces levels of immigration or Reform will be voted in to do this. What I think of the actual issue is neither here or there really.

Galaxy

But what is happening on VE day doesn't really change the fact that the electorate is consistently voting against high levels of immigration. My view is we are now at the stage of a fairly simple choice, either Labour significantly reduces levels of immigration or Reform will be voted in to do this. What I think of the actual issue is neither here or there really.

I think Reform will win in some areas of the country and we'll end up with a country more divided than ever. Ironically, immigration isn't causing the social problems many people are facing.

I think it depends what Labour does.

This is going round in circles.

Yes, it is probably true that immigration causes far fewer problems than it gets the blame for, but it is also true that many people, rightly or wrongly, feel that it does cause problems, and crucially they are the ones who live in areas of high immigration, who are more at risk of losing already low-status jobs to the lowest bidder, and who have felt cuts in public services much more keenly than those in more affluent areas.

Whatever the 'reality' of the situation, if people are written off as ignorant, or bigoted or uninformed whenever they express an opinion, they will revolt, and I don't blame them. I am left-leaning, but recognise that the left (particularly older men on the left) can be very patronising (eg the idea that anyone who doesn't agree is suffering 'false class consciousness' goes right back to Marx) and this gets very tedious for those who see through it.

As with so much about politics and economics, theory is one thing and lived experience is another, and it is the people with lived experience who are starting to make their voices heard after being swept aside for so long. The powers that be have to choose whether to acknowledge popular feeling, however distasteful they might find it, and respond in a way that makes people feel listened to, or to continue preaching theories that just don't play out in inner cities for those on low incomes and risk others taking power.

Excellent post.

Whatever the 'reality' of the situation, if people are written off as ignorant, or bigoted or uninformed whenever they express an opinion, they will revolt

So true.

And their votes count exactly the same as the, oh so well informed.
Which I always feel is often forgotten.

Yes Doodledog has articulated that perfectly.
I also think there is something about the continuous 'this is how you should think' that is causing incredible resentment and a push back that isn't going to be much fun.

Who do you think are writing others off as ignorant, biased or uninformed? Frankly, that seems as much of a stereotype as the one you're accusing other people of making. What solutions do you suggest which don't involve Reform?

FWIW I think the next election is a long way off. It would be a miracle if Labour doesn't lose seats because it's starting from a high base. I really don't see the Conservatives getting their act together to win a majority. I don't see Reform winning a majority either. I suspect the LibDems might hang on to seats they've got now and it wouldn't surprise me if the Greens pick up another seat or two.

I think (and what do I know?) that we'll end up with a hung parliament. If there isn't a coalition, there will need to be some kind of working agreement.

I don't have a crystal ball and I have no idea which direction Labour will take. Reform is essentially a "one trick pony" and I truly believe that there enough people in the country who, for whatever reason, would vote for anybody to keep Reform out, not that I think they'll be able to build the party infrastructure to look like they're capable of forming a government.

Galaxy

Yes Doodledog has articulated that perfectly.
I also think there is something about the continuous 'this is how you should think' that is causing incredible resentment and a push back that isn't going to be much fun.

Yes, Galaxy I find it tiresome being told by you that what I believe is wrong.

Galaxy is right. Never mind the politics, people don’t like being patronised by rich politicians and told what (they ought) to think. Subtly or otherwise.

nanna8

Galaxy is right. Never mind the politics, people don’t like being patronised by rich politicians and told what (they ought) to think. Subtly or otherwise.

Are they really being patronised? Did you listen to what Starmer said?