Sir Keir Starmer’s speech this morning (12/05/25)

I can’t help pointing out that as these were elections of local councillors, not MPs, these voters are no more likely to have their views represented in parliament today than they were before the local elections

But it is about having their views represented in local areas, not in Parliament, when you vote in local Elections.

I do think many people must have voted against their political beliefs in the local elections.

I doubt it. But of course it is possible.

Why would they do that though?

fancythat

^I can’t help pointing out that as these were elections of local councillors, not MPs, these voters are no more likely to have their views represented in parliament today than they were before the local elections^

But it is about having their views represented in local areas, not in Parliament, when you vote in local Elections.

In your post you said ^ a party who they think has a good chance of representing their views in parliament.^ Nothing about 'in local areas'.

My impression, gained over the years, is that whatever party is 'in power' in local councils the moans about them are usually concentrated on an impression that local councillors waste money on jollies, money wasting vanity projects. and that councils have too many people in useless jobs.

I think Reform councillors are in for something of a shock when they find out just how tight local councils' budgets are and that opportunities to undertake Doge type exercises are limited.

If you read the survey fancythat, you will see that they have, because a much lower percentage of the population define themselves with the values of Reform than actually voted for them. We all define ourselves as closer to the centre than we actually are I think, but that doesn’t explain so many people voting for the furthest right party we have. It’s defined by age too of course, so we’re bound to see more views on the right on Gransnet than in the total electorate.

In your post you said a party who they think has a good chance of representing their views in parliament.^ Nothing about 'in local areas'.^

Fair enough.

Casdon - I will get back to you sometime.

Casdon

If you read the survey fancythat, you will see that they have, because a much lower percentage of the population define themselves with the values of Reform than actually voted for them. We all define ourselves as closer to the centre than we actually are I think, but that doesn’t explain so many people voting for the furthest right party we have. It’s defined by age too of course, so we’re bound to see more views on the right on Gransnet than in the total electorate.

I think most people genuinely see themselves as 'middle of the road', 'centre' people who 'can see all sides' of an argument - probably because when we become aware that we are biased one way or the other we realign our views a bit. It's a bit like the way we view anyone with more than us as 'rich' (or well off, at least) and those with less as 'poor', or heavy drinkers as people who drink more than we do.

We see it all the time on here. People come onto controversial threads claiming to be the voice of reason, and within a couple of posts their point of view is obvious, and it's as biased as all the others on the thread . It's not hypocrisy, it's human nature, I think. Anyone who truly believes they have the wisdom of Solomon on all things is probably best ignored anyway.

As regards people voting Reform - I think a lot don't realise the extent of their radicalism, and (I hope) a lot are protesting by not voting for the main parties when it doesn't really matter. A GE is a very different thing.

I agree Doodledog. Nobody can be unbiased.

fancythat

^I do think many people must have voted against their political beliefs in the local elections.^

I doubt it. But of course it is possible.

Why would they do that though?

In the past I have voted differently in local and national elections.

I'm aware of how little is coming out about what Mondays presentation was about, which is tackling legal immigration and the Visa system and presentation of the White Paper.

The O/P talks about the elephant in the room which is to do with irregular immigration not legal immigration. Yet again we go to Reform yet the white Paper was in the making long before local elections.

Talking to an acquaintance on Wednesday who follows the news but not closely, she was concerned about immigration but was really shocked when I told her the huge % of legal immigrants, she thought it was all "boat people" with a few care workers coming in tacked on.

It seems to me a lot of the press are pushing these narratives just to Starmer bash but the end result is a tide of feelings/votes for Reform, unrelated to the facts of immigration. Just look for example at GN threads - the White Paper dealing with legal immigration came out Monday, so much to discuss,

but GB news as in the thread "Shocking report GB News 9-11 pm tonight" cups straight back to people in Calais and this is GB ignoring the facts on legal immigration and that a real difference can be made there.

Its not cups in the last paragraph but cuts.

Wyllow3 there won’t be that many people as uninformed as your friend!
All boat people with a few care workers tacked on.😁It’s the burgeoning cumulative amount of legal immigrants and asylum seekers ( I use that word loosely) that are putting such a strain on the economy and society.I think most people know this.

I admit to some exaggeration there as of course people are aware of health sector workers and depending on where you live and how you work with you'll know more, but I'm willing to bet that if asked point blank what they think the % of legal incomers are they wouldn't know just how high it was or what visas are available. (And therefore the significance of the White Paper, which covers so much, from the visas themselves to standards of spoken English)

I would say the concerns about legal migration have been there for about a decade. Certainly in the communities I work in.

Galaxy

I would say the concerns about legal migration have been there for about a decade. Certainly in the communities I work in.

Aren't you in the North East, Galaxy?.

I would say that concern about legal immigration is a bit odd as the NE has one of the lowest percentages of immigrants. Genuine, undoubtedly, but odd all the same.

MaizieD

Galaxy

I would say the concerns about legal migration have been there for about a decade. Certainly in the communities I work in.

Aren't you in the North East, Galaxy?.

I would say that concern about legal immigration is a bit odd as the NE has one of the lowest percentages of immigrants. Genuine, undoubtedly, but odd all the same.

It’s often been pointed out that areas without high levels of immigration are more likely to vote for anti immigration policies because they’re scared of what they hear and read about.

I work in the most deprived areas of a large city, it has concentrated pockets where legal migration is a concern. I tried to phrase that well but to be honest gave up.
The latest figures for primary schools across the
city were if I remember rightly 30% of pupils with EAL.

Isn’t the problem that deprived areas are starved of funds by central government, though?

Well there are a thousand problems in those areas, one of them that would be useful to address is that the experience of those communities with regard to immigration is very different to mine ( rural north east).

My cousin who lives in a very run down area of Birmingham probably votes Reform ( I’ve never discussed politics with her). The area is so different to the lovely place I used to love visiting on a Sunday with my dad. Our area ( back to backs) was pulled down as slum clearance but I thought my cousins area was like wonderland because they had gardens.

My experience in South Wales is that immigrants have historically formed communities in some of the deprived inner city areas, and have been doing so since the 1960s, probably earlier in some places. And some of the people who live there are third and fourth generation now. I’m unclear if this discussion is about new immigrants only?

I don't really want to be a spokesperson for deprived areas God knows they have had more than their fair share of that! But if I had to guess I would say the change has been too rapid for many and everyone saying diversity is our strength like a mantra doesn't really work. Those communities have very different experiences to myself.

Casdon

If you read the survey fancythat, you will see that they have, because a much lower percentage of the population define themselves with the values of Reform than actually voted for them. We all define ourselves as closer to the centre than we actually are I think, but that doesn’t explain so many people voting for the furthest right party we have. It’s defined by age too of course, so we’re bound to see more views on the right on Gransnet than in the total electorate.

I think it could be the other way around.

I go more by what people do in life, than what they say.
To themselves, others , or to pollsters.

I still say why would you vote against your political beliefs.
My opinion.

MayBee70

Isn’t the problem that deprived areas are starved of funds by central government, though?

Yes that is the problem MayBee.

The former Tory government (aided by the media - MSM & SM) perpetuated the myth that all the problems in socio-economically deprived areas were the fault of immigrants. Why? Because it gave people in those areas someone to blame, other than the actual culprits … the Tory government. Classic scapegoating!

Reform have happily furthered this myth because, essentially, they are a party built on racism.

As you say in an earlier post MayBee research shows that people living in areas with large immigrant populations are the least concerned about immigration. Perhaps because they know, from experience, that living in diverse communities is far from detrimental - indeed, it’s enriching.

As I explained that isn't the case with the communities I am describing, but yes I am sure telling them how enriching high levels of immigration are will work, it has been highly successful so far.