Sir Keir Starmer’s speech this morning (12/05/25)

Growstuff

I am talking about Perception which doesn't always go hand-in-hand with Facts and Figures or Logical Argument. It is a feeling that is hard to override and I think the Labour party should not ignore it because, surely as night follows day, Farage will not.

growstuff

Boz Please could you explain. If the complaint from the "Red Wall" is that immigrants are taking our jobs, I would have thought that voters would be pleased that the government is making it more difficult for immigrants "to take our jobs". If it's actually true that immigrants are doing jobs which current UK residents could do, surely there should now be more opportunities and there's no excuse not to do the jobs.

What would Reform actually do to appease these people? What on earth do they actually want (apart from having a big moan)?

PS. What exactly do you mean by the "ethnic" vote? If you mean people with brown or black skin whose background might not be white British, that includes many people who were born in the UK. If you mean recent immigrants (presumably including those with white skin), most of them aren't British citizens and don't have a vote.

👏👏👏👏

We all have our own allegiances and views and opinions, but at times I puzzle and despair! According to some of the media, some of the public and a few of our Posters Starmer is “dull” “leftie” “too right” “too centralist” “boring” “a liar” “doing nothing” “having knee jerk reactions”

Tbh Starmer bashing is becoming somewhat dull and boring in itself!

Absolutely Cossy, we have had enough of the 'charisma' and 'charm' of Trump, Farage and the like. Slow and steady gets there in the end.

Boz Please could you explain. If the complaint from the "Red Wall" is that immigrants are taking our jobs, I would have thought that voters would be pleased that the government is making it more difficult for immigrants "to take our jobs". If it's actually true that immigrants are doing jobs which current UK residents could do, surely there should now be more opportunities and there's no excuse not to do the jobs.

What would Reform actually do to appease these people? What on earth do they actually want (apart from having a big moan)?

PS. What exactly do you mean by the "ethnic" vote? If you mean people with brown or black skin whose background might not be white British, that includes many people who were born in the UK. If you mean recent immigrants (presumably including those with white skin), most of them aren't British citizens and don't have a vote.

Cossy

mum2three

Quite frankly I wonder at the sanity of this man. He has the attitude of someone who throws waste food on the floor and then wonders why there are rats.

Can you explain your remark? I have no idea what you mean?

I think she’s getting him mixed up with Trump…

Its all about perception really and Labour, unless they lurch to the right sharply, will always take an approach to immigration that will not offend their ethnic vote.
If I was eyeing up the UK from across the channel, for example, any Labour plans would not put me off; whereas Reform would scare me, even if the threat is uncertainty.
These plans will not appease the Red Wall, who will switch to Reform at the next GE. They do not care what Starmer does abroad - they see over-immigration at the sharp end and care nothing for the chattering clamour of middle class intelectuals,

mum2three

Quite frankly I wonder at the sanity of this man. He has the attitude of someone who throws waste food on the floor and then wonders why there are rats.

Can you explain your remark? I have no idea what you mean?

Quite frankly I wonder at the sanity of this man. He has the attitude of someone who throws waste food on the floor and then wonders why there are rats.

Wyllow3

PoliticsNerd point is relevant here.

It's not an instant solution, it is a massive redrawing of "terms and conditions" which will have a gradual effect on jobs, universities and precipitate action as enacted by Trump and if you believe him Farage would cause chaos.

Would it have made any difference in the elections? Possibly a marginal one, but Reform were promising big magical changes without the "how it would be done".

I completely agree.

I also understand why people are drawn to Farage, he speaks well and genuinely appears to be promising a “return to British values” (I’m not even sure what this means, but having seen many people out and about celebrating VE Day and how all communities pulled together in Covid and after those awful riots, I’d say most of us have these “values” in abundance!)

Farage also plays the “normal bloke” very well, he’s a great actor!

People want a better future, a stable country and a nice life, this is quite normal, but the slant Farage puts on migration is frankly sickening, he’s not an honest man, neither is he a “finisher”, he likes the challenge of the fight, not so much the responsibility of the victor!

Give me boring, dull, slow and steady any day!

I can get my “thrills” elsewhere, thank you!

PoliticsNerd point is relevant here.

It's not an instant solution, it is a massive redrawing of "terms and conditions" which will have a gradual effect on jobs, universities and precipitate action as enacted by Trump and if you believe him Farage would cause chaos.

Would it have made any difference in the elections? Possibly a marginal one, but Reform were promising big magical changes without the "how it would be done".

Wyllow3

Its not from any "outside pressure"

Why do I say this? Its because it was in the Labour Party Manifesto for the last election and is being followed through

The manifesto said

"The 2024 Labour manifesto outlined plans to reform the UK's visa system, focusing on reducing net migration and ending over-reliance on migrant workers. This included tightening control of the points-based system and managing visas more effectively. Specifically, Labour pledged to link immigration to skills, introduce new workforce and training plans, and strengthen the Migration Advisory Committee. They also aimed to ensure fair management of the system and appropriate visa restrictions"

Conservative crisktism has been "its not gone far enough" and Farage "it isnt addressing the boat issue (which of course it wasn't intended to.

fancythat - it was in the manifesto

JaneJudge

It is a bit like the wild west and gets worse when the weather is nice.

I think some employment problems have been caused by forcing youngsters to stay in education for longer who don't want to be there. There should be no NEET youngsters at all. How has it even become a thing

I realise I contradict myself here It's just I remember dropping out of college and I had to get a job. It just wasn't acceptable to stay at home doing nothing.

I’m too in the South, in Southend, sadly a high crime area. I see Police out and about quite a lot and think the issue is lack of local Police Stations, lack of police generally and lack of Bobbies on the beat!

I'm 35 minutes from London in commuter land. One of my neighbours cars costs more than some people's houses and that is most probably part of the problem of attracting crime.

It is a bit like the wild west and gets worse when the weather is nice.

I think some employment problems have been caused by forcing youngsters to stay in education for longer who don't want to be there. There should be no NEET youngsters at all. How has it even become a thing

We shouldn’t be providing free English classes for those who come here to live on visas to fill various roles.If they can’t speak enough of the language they shouldn’t be handed visas in the first place.If they want to improve their English they can pay at night schools or the equivalent of.
Asylum seekers are a different kettle of fish, if granted asylum which should be a rigorous process ( that’s another matter) then English classes, should, in my view be provided either free of charge or a nominal sum.

When you run your eyes down the 76 page White Paper and the amount of detail on different kinds of visa, and decisions about getting Citizenship, and whether families have a right to come over on different kinds of visa, and language qualifications, and how we can fill jobs....I don't find it surprising it took a long time since it appeared in the Labour Manifesto - it's a massive undertaking.

Possibly they had hoped it would be ready before local elections - but it wasn't ready.

Whitewavemark2

JaneJudge

There are courses at my local college to learn English. Those that work for the NGS have to pass an English exam if nursing.

I’ve not heard his speech so I don’t know why I’m commenting but where I live we are lacking an active policing force. There is so much criminal behaviour that isn’t dealt with that I fear people will just take matters into their own hands which won’t end well

Blimey - sounds like the Wild West!!

That isn’t true of my area in the south.

It’s true of many areas in the country, I expect you live somewhere rather lovely😁
Where I live, also in the South you’ll be lucky if you get a police visit when needed days if not a week later for a burglary and none at all for shoplifted items under a high amount.
They’re round quick smart I bet if anyone posts a so called hate crime online.
They go for the low hanging fruit every time.

It appears that the figures relating to legal migration into the U.K. will show a considerable drop year on year.

15% of the UK’s population are foreign born which is exactly the same figures you would find in most wealthy western countries.

lafergar

I wonder where people are going to learn English? There is practically nothing available. From their phones I suppose.

The best way of learning a foreign language is by total immersion, ie integrating into the society you have moved into.

“Total language immersion is a method where learners are completely surrounded by the target language, using it for all aspects of their daily lives, not just in formal learning settings. This creates a natural and intense environment for language acquisition, accelerating the learning process and fostering fluency.”

Of course this is easier for younger people.

Another step in the plan. Starmer isn't charismatic (at this point) but it's nice to have a rest from grand gestures and hollow words.

Raising the education level for people coming to work here seems sensible when too many seem to be unable to find jobs. They must pay a sufficient amount though. Care is expensive ( in many ways) and they still haven't come up with a solution for this but it's a long list they have to cope with.

For too long some companies, in all spheres, have taken people from abroad instead of offering apprenticeships. This isn't new, companies have always been happy to take the ready trained rather than train themselves. Some companies have to in order to grow. It does need a solution. Perhaps this, and some 16 to 18 education will come under review next.

Step by step may be boring but results tend to actually happen using this method.

Millie22

He's clearly worried and so he should be after telling so many lies.

Perhaps pressure from his own party has forced him to address the immigration issue and the rise in Reform.

Sorry, can you please explain what you mean by “telling so many lies”

This isn’t a knee jerk reaction, White Papers take a long time to agree and produce, this started long before local elections.

He is right in so much as legal migration is very high currently, “illegal migration” makes up less than 1% of our population and is a world-wide issue.

I have no issue with the adoption of sorts of the Australian migration policy, unless I’m mistaken Australians are employed before migrants and migrants have to have skills required in the area they are entering and in some cases sponsorship.

Many people, mainly female, leave our schools then study Health & Do isl Care in our local colleges, very few of them then enter into the care industry.

I heard the very silly Bev Turner on GB news this morning, ask where the care workers were going to come from: 'after all you can't expect a 22 year old youth empty bedpans, can you?'
Why not?
I know of a 25 year old man who has lived in his grandmother's house and cared for her, with his brother, for the past three years. Now she has died he is investigating going into elderly care full time. I know a twenty year old girl, quite a prickly character, who works full time in a care home, and loves it; 'the old people, they are so interesting and they tell you all sorts of things about their past lives I didn't know'. A young man cared consistently for my father twenty-five years ago, and another one cared for the mother in-law of a friend in a local care home, and was the favourite of the residents.
(all the above examples indigenous British,)
I agree the pay and terms and conditions need to be vastly improved to recognise the value of the work being done by carers.

Cossy

AGAA4

Legal migration has become a problem too. Yvette Cooper is allowing only those with a degree into the UK. There are too many low skilled foreign workers she said and believes they haven't been good for the UK.
I think that care workers need qualifications and to be paid much more. I think if the pay and conditions were better more British people would do the job.

The issue here is that we have many many 17-25 year old Brits unemployed, and having left school with poor academic achievements. They need employment and all they will get initially is minimum wage roles. Also care homes need more than just carers, they need admin, cleaners and kitchen staff.

It is silly to bring in immigrants to do low level roles, cleaners, dustbin men, road sweepers, our own unemployed should fill these roles.

I completely agree more training etc should be given to carers, but they’re not the only ones badly paid, teaching assistant and nursery workers have qualifications and are low earners.

It’s all a bit of a mess, isn’t it!

Good post.

Let's hope it all pans out.
I have my reservations.

Whitewavemark2

JaneJudge

There are courses at my local college to learn English. Those that work for the NGS have to pass an English exam if nursing.

I’ve not heard his speech so I don’t know why I’m commenting but where I live we are lacking an active policing force. There is so much criminal behaviour that isn’t dealt with that I fear people will just take matters into their own hands which won’t end well

Blimey - sounds like the Wild West!!

That isn’t true of my area in the south.

It isnt true where I live either[as far as I know].
But I can easily see how this would happen.