Sir Keir Starmer’s speech this morning (12/05/25)

I have no problems saying it is a factor amongst many others, and also believe that multiculturalism brings benefits of its own as well.

But I'm sure you have met children and parents of immigrants who want to get as best an education as they can and want to learn and get on in life. My experience is second hand from my niece who is headteacher in an inner city (Hackney) primary school.

Pluses and minuses. I am so minded, as I read upthread, that although of course she of us have encountered medical staff whose English was not adequate, we rely on huge numbers of staff in the NHS whose English is perfectly adequate, and not only that, when we were going through Covid a higher % of BAME staff died whist caring for the population as a whole.

My, we have short memories.

And I think we are now at a situation where either Starmer tackles immigration or Reform will when they gain power. So either Labour do it in a way that people trust, or it will be done in a way that won't be pleasant to say the least. In my view the option of not seriously tackling it no longer exists, because I think the ballot box will ensure it happens. I don't say that from any particular standpoint, I am the daughter of an immigrant, but I think it is just where we are.

I am in the schools every day Wyllow,, all sorts of things impact the current situation in primary schools, (especially those in deprived areas) but it absolutely has an impact, I can pretend it doesn't but not sure how that helps. One of the first things those who offer services to support schools discuss is proportion of EAL in the school, alongside proportion of those with additional needs, pupil premium numbers, etc etc. There is nothing wrong with saying peoples experience of immigration differs.
This whole debate is about class. It's not the first class divide and it won't be the last.

^ Not a clue why he is targeting legals. It's should be the illegals he should be targeting imo^

Absolutely. So in reality he is still not listening. While saying he is.
Whilst adding to conspiracy theories.
What is he playing at?

That's assuming all 30% are all new to the UK.

We cant assume children who may have English as a second language (from home) do not have good English Language skills.

They are duo-lingual, which actually has advantages in several aspect of learning

There are many children whose parents/grandparents were not immigrants whose language skills are very inadequate indeed.

I don't agree with your assumption it's the immigrant children in schools impact the quality of education. They can bring much of value. My son went to a multi cultural school in the 1990's and I am very glad he did, not an all white enclave.

Galaxy

In my city across all primary schools the figure of those with English as a second language is 30% , in certain areas of the city it will be much higher. Of course this impacts on the quality of education. Now this had no impact on my children who got their education in a middle class village. People's experience of immigration is very different, often depending on the class you belong to.

people's experience of immigration is very different, always often depending on the class you belong to

This is the most honest statement made about immigration.

Let’s not go mad growstuff 😁 Starmer hasn’t done anything so far except discuss the white paper.He’ll be judged on the results when and if.

lafergar

I'm not sure if you are addressing me Oreo. I'm not denigrating, I'm pointing out something which isn't true.

No, I wasn’t addressing you lafergar it was more a general comment to those who were defensive about their own medics and treatment, saying how good their foreign NHS consultants and doctors and nurses were. There are good and bad, also those whose English is poor and so can’t communicate properly with patients.

In my city across all primary schools the figure of those with English as a second language is 30% , in certain areas of the city it will be much higher. Of course this impacts on the quality of education. Now this had no impact on my children who got their education in a middle class village. People's experience of immigration is very different, often depending on the class you belong to.

Oreo

growstuff

Grantanow

I worry that in the eyes of many Starmer has validated Reform's racist views. Copying Refom is not a good idea. Most people are far more concerned about the cost of living, the NHS, etc., than immigration and cutting care home- related visas means poorer services for care home residents.

But people claim that being concerned about immigration isn't racist.

That’s cos being concerned about immigration isn’t racist.
The government is concerned about it spiralling out of control and I don’t think they’re racist either.

Good! Glad that's been cleared up. Presumably people can now start praising Starmer. Well done, Keir!

lafergar

*Every council and many FE colleges offer English as an additional language courses*

No they don't. Also many of them are have waiting lists. There is very very little in particular for women with children.

Never mind, you clearly know everything.

I agree. They don't - and I do know that. for a fact. Nevertheless, there are groups/courses available, sometimes self-help groups and sometimes run by teachers for free or very low cost. I know because I helped somebody find one.

lafergar

I'm not sure if you are addressing me Oreo. I'm not denigrating, I'm pointing out something which isn't true.

I expect you're being "passive aggressive" .

valdavi

It does stretch credulity that a locum A & E doctor did not understand antibiotic or infection. English is the linga franca for medicine anyway, & if they'd seen more than 4 patients since arriving in UK they would have come across both those terms.
I don't think you were crediting them with the understanding you were actually receiving - why I don't know but A&E patients are under high levels of stress, & you don't appear to have a high baseline of trust. Or maybe your sick elderly mother wasn't speaking the clearest - you are her daughter so would have more chance of understanding than a stranger.

I had to get a foreign Dr in the hospital to witness my husband’s Power of Attorney paperwork.

It clearly said it was to be completed in black pen in block capitals. I pointed this out to her. She filled it in in upper and lower case! I gave her a new sheet and told her again it had to be in block capitals. She then wrote the hospital address down with a spelling mistake. I told her she had to initial the error and correct it. She then signed her full name next to it.

I would expect a Doctor to understand what block capitals are and to be able to read simple instructions. It’s scary to think she has to complete important medical documents for her job.

I'm not sure if you are addressing me Oreo. I'm not denigrating, I'm pointing out something which isn't true.

Absolutely, I think children of incomers are a really good influence as most other countries have more respect for education & educators than we traditionally have in this country. Much less likely to call someone "a swot" for getting good marks, much more likely to admire them for that.

Fran - that is why they have raised the requirements for levels of English speaking .

Schools? I don't think we can assume it harms education.

A London friend from another board wrote this. She is a Civil Servant, and her children go to the local school.

"The 2021 census in London showed that 41% of residents were born abroad. A 2025 data source suggests this has increased to 48%. This rise highlights London's status as a diverse and multicultural city. Schools in London generally don't view immigration as a problem."

Children of incomers can be amongst the keenest to learn and get on in life. Problems in schools arise far more from problem behaviour. There are systems in schools and children learn quickly.

We also cant assume that children of skilled/educated parents who've come in on visas speak no English.

I do believe in moderation in all things. Immigration is just one thing that changes our society, & there have been so many changes in the last 30 years.
I am on the "immigration is good" side of the argument, but whatever the economic benefits, I believe we need to control the rate of immigration - we have to be careful not to put off those who would be huge assetts to us though.
There is a section of society finding it difficult to get work. Removing carehomes' readymade source of cheap labour would maybe encourage higher wages & more flexible working in the sector, & make good jobs for people already living here.
The problem is, care costs are already sky-high.

Being concerned about the UK being overwhelmed with very large numbers of extra people without the infrastructure for them isn’t racist. It is racist to determine who is and who isn’t ‘suitable’ if they are seeking asylum, unless they are criminals.

The ability to understand what a medic is saying, and the trust that they can understand you is paramount in a hospital setting.
Please don’t denigrate the experience of others just cos you haven’t had a problem with this.
Just a few years ago, before the pandemic I had an op after which the consultant arranged a meeting with me to tell me something.He was Chinese and I couldn’t understand a word he was saying.He got quite uppity about it but I stood my ground and he got a nurse to come in, look at my notes and tell me what the problem was, a minor problem with the op.
DP visited a relative in hospital who was getting worked up as the Italian nurse on his ward couldn’t communicate properly with him.The nurse was pleasant but had very poor English.
Am sure this happens quite a bit.
It doesn’t detract from all the foreign medics who can and do communicate properly with their patients, but it can be a real problem for patients at times.

Every council and many FE colleges offer English as an additional language courses

No they don't. Also many of them are have waiting lists. There is very very little in particular for women with children.

Never mind, you clearly know everything.

growstuff

Grantanow

I worry that in the eyes of many Starmer has validated Reform's racist views. Copying Refom is not a good idea. Most people are far more concerned about the cost of living, the NHS, etc., than immigration and cutting care home- related visas means poorer services for care home residents.

But people claim that being concerned about immigration isn't racist.

That’s cos being concerned about immigration isn’t racist.
The government is concerned about it spiralling out of control and I don’t think they’re racist either.

It does stretch credulity that a locum A & E doctor did not understand antibiotic or infection. English is the linga franca for medicine anyway, & if they'd seen more than 4 patients since arriving in UK they would have come across both those terms.
I don't think you were crediting them with the understanding you were actually receiving - why I don't know but A&E patients are under high levels of stress, & you don't appear to have a high baseline of trust. Or maybe your sick elderly mother wasn't speaking the clearest - you are her daughter so would have more chance of understanding than a stranger.

lafergar

I wonder where people are going to learn English? There is practically nothing available. From their phones I suppose.

Every council and many FE colleges offer English as an additional language courses. The internet is full of English learning and it is a 1st, 2nd or 3rd language in a large % of the world.
Applicants for university in the UK have to pass an English language test in their own country and provide a certificate as part of their application. So why not others?

It is currently quite alarming when my elderly mother was treated in A&E by a locum doctor who did not seem to understand the English words "antibiotic" or " infection"
Nor the ward orderly bringing my mother food was trying to insist that she ate a banana dessert despite knowing that she was allergic to bananas because nobody had explained to her what a banana was in Turkish.
It is not just the adults either - how does a teacher manage a class where there are so many children who do not (we did have a local school where 26 of the 30 children in the class had another first language) what does that do to the education of OUR children, or indeed the immigrant children who do speak English

Nannapat1

I agree that he sounded believable and that his speech was eloquent and seemed well thought out but...it was only words and I no longer believe his 'promises'.

We seem unfortunately to live increasingly in a world where people expect results of policies to have an impact almost immediately and there are criticisms when they dont.

Starmer has always made it clear in several areas that policies are in place for gradual change.

Unfortunately we don't have the means to suddenly resource all that we would like, and changes that mean alterations in staffing changes to implement policies take practical time

- ie in this case administering big changes in the handing out of visas - measures to encourage home grown workers to take up jobs - these are not overnight moves.

I think the "jam today" politics of those who can promise this or that but will never have to deliver have a lot to do with it.

UK is not Germany. This is the land of plenty or so people are led to believe, I’m sure a few more grants can be given out to language centres and interpreters! 🤬🤬